Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

duners88

Cadet
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
17
<removed> see below </removed>

<removed>unless your boat was really expensive or you put it on yourself the gel coat on your boat is Polyester of some form, NOT epoxy. Epoxy is not UV stable and would need to be covered by something else, or chemically altered (expensive) to protect it from UV.

Do these ?shining agents? damage the polyester? Generally No. Once fully cured, unless you attack the polyester with a solvent, it will resist damage from most other chemicals. It is not inert however and will react. Oxidization is one such reaction. So be sure that the ?shining agent? is listed by the manufacturer as safe for use on polyester.

Is polyester impervious to chemical penetration? No. All polyester is porous to some extent. (So is epoxy.) This is where using a ?shining agent? can cause problems. When you apply a ?shining agent? it penetrates all the little surface scratches, pits, dips, and pores. This levels out the perceived surface of the gel coat and makes it ?shiny? until the ?shining agent? is either worn, washed, or degrades off. When the ?Shining agent? penetrates the pores, cracks, etc. some of it penetrates rather deeply and is not easily removed by washing or scrubbing and because it is now somewhat protected with limited exposure it may not degrade quickly. Most of it does and that is why you need to reapply it. It is the length of time that this takes that is usually indicative of the ?quality? of the shining agent. These ?shining agents? do not remove oxidization (damage) it only hides it.

The sanding/polishing method does the same thing only it attempts to make the surface smooth by removing the high spots until the perceived surface is level, and it is the re-introduction of the scratches and pitting that make the surface unlevel reducing the ?shine?. This method does remove the oxidized (damaged) layer which is why it generally last longer.

Back to our problem?

Vaseline is used as a barrier gel, sometimes called a barrier cream, which means that it does not allow things to penetrate through it. This includes glass-fiber dust, polyester dust, air, and the chemicals in polyester resin. Many ?shining agents? have some barrier qualities and actually repel chemicals (Substances that repel water are called hydrophobic). So, when you go to re-paint or re-gel coat the tiny amounts of the ?shining agents? still in the pits and pores do their job as a barrier and can repel the new surface you are trying to apply. This usually manifests itself as a ?fisheye? a spot where the resin or paint has been pushed away down to the old surface. (Now, I know there are lots of other reasons coatings fail but I am using this as an example of one way) It may be very expensive, require a harsh chemical solvent, or some mechanical (sanding/grinding) method to remove the contaminant.

So, when professionals say it is bad it is because they have experience with re-finishing and the problems that the ?shining agents? cause. They also have the experience, knowledge, facilities, and expertise that makes re-finishing easier for them than for most <edit>non professional boat restorers</edit>.

It should also be noted that because of the potential for more work later on, that when restoring a valuable collectable boat, by applying the ?shining agents? you may be damaging the value of the boat you are trying to restore.

For most of the <edit>non professional boat restorers</edit> who are just looking to improve the ?shininess? of their boats and are not working on a collectable boat where the value may be damaged then the ?shining agents? are a good alternative <edit> and work perfectly acceptably</edit> They just need to be aware that in the future they may be setting themselves up for more expense and work.

<removed>paint jobs that look deep and are really reflective are accomplished with layers (10 or more in some cases) of clear coat and hours of polishing, not waxing. <removed>see below</removed>
 

foodfisher

Captain
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
3,756
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Appreciate the explanation. So what's the quickest, longest lasting way to bring an oxidised, daily driver up to a presentable appearance? I would like a good looking finish but time is limited for a working family man.
 

duners88

Cadet
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

<removed>Non IBoats link</removed>

<edit>A</edit> recomendation for a <removed> solution <edit> is </edit> Meguire's products (I use their stuff<removed>). And they have everything from spay-on wipe off to traditional paste type waxes.

The traditional paste waxes (apply, let dry, remove excess, buff) usually last the longest and will require an hour or three to do your whole boat. <removed>

If using a powered buffer be carefull not to "burn" your finish. (This usually happens from spending too long on one spot. If it is not buffing out like you want move on and come back, clean the area really well then re-apply the wax and re-buff. <edit>This is not meant to assume you don't know it is just an explanation</edit>)

I hope that helps.

If your gel coat is severly oxidized/damaged <edit> it is possible that </edit> no amount of wax or other "shining agent" will help. You need to remove the damaged surface.

<removed>
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,046
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Well....... Did you know this information is available on iboats. Do you think we have been living in the dark?

Vaseline has it's place and it is an adequate fix for the finishes on some boats.

Wet sanding is yet another alternative....... How about comet cleanser? We have many member's who had had success using that prior to rubbing compound, polishing compound and 3m fiberglass restorer.

You can save bunches of typing if you just use the search function and ask questions.

Here in the restoration section people are normally concerned with the boat finish being restored or replaced.
 

duners88

Cadet
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

I wanted to present a succinct explanation that could be read in one post and cover enough that someone unfamiliar with paint/coatings/fiberglass would be able to make their own decision. I also wanted to give it a title that would be easily searched.

It is not intended to cover all possible abrasives\treatments that would work or discuss what is appropriate for every boats specific situation.

I applologize, I did not mean to imply that the knowledge base here is somehow lacking.

I will keep my change to myself in the future.
 

duners88

Cadet
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
17
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Thank you Mark42.
 

Yacht Dr.

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 26, 2005
Messages
5,581
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Well....... Did you know this information is available on iboats. Do you think we have been living in the dark?

Vaseline has it's place and it is an adequate fix for the finishes on some boats.

Wet sanding is yet another alternative....... How about comet cleanser? We have many member's who had had success using that prior to rubbing compound, polishing compound and 3m fiberglass restorer.

You can save bunches of typing if you just use the search function and ask questions.

Here in the restoration section people are normally concerned with the boat finish being restored or replaced.

Hello Bob..

Did you have a bad day or something ? I mean that was kinda harsh on ol' Dune ..

I personally Commend his post. He tells it like it is with (re)-finishing Gel m8.. there is no quick cure without damage.. but will get you out of a pinch.

He also described pros and cons of such additives causing good and bad.. and quick and ez for some.. then hard grind stone for others.. ( you allready know In my previous posts that I do not recommend coatings What-so-ever ..)

Dune has some very Valid points here..

YD.
 

Bob_VT

Moderator & Unofficial iBoats Historian
Staff member
Joined
May 19, 2001
Messages
26,046
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Yup..... bad day ;)

Good post but...... I guess I was trying to say we have the pro's here (such as Yacht Dr and many other's)......

I consider our resources the best available.

I absolutely invite and welcome new people and fresh ideas.

Duner's I was just trying to push the iboats stuff ........ I apologize if you were offended ........really was not the intent....... you are one of us now :D

BTW Meguiars has a marine line too.
 

foodfisher

Captain
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
Messages
3,756
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

<removed>Non IBoats link</removed>

<edit>A</edit> recomendation for a <removed> solution <edit> is </edit> Meguire's products (I use their stuff<removed>). And they have everything from spay-on wipe off to traditional paste type waxes.

The traditional paste waxes (apply, let dry, remove excess, buff) usually last the longest and will require an hour or three to do your whole boat. <removed>

If using a powered buffer be carefull not to "burn" your finish. (This usually happens from spending too long on one spot. If it is not buffing out like you want move on and come back, clean the area really well then re-apply the wax and re-buff. <edit>This is not meant to assume you don't know it is just an explanation</edit>)

I hope that helps.

If your gel coat is severly oxidized/damaged <edit> it is possible that </edit> no amount of wax or other "shining agent" will help. You need to remove the damaged surface.

<removed>

Damaged surface? I have what looks like water spots. I used TR3 by hand and these spots didn't go away. Is this damage? Am I looking at a wet sand? Haven't tried vaseline yet, but I will if the spots will go away. Don't want to create bigger problems for myself. Sorry for any ruffled feathers my ?'s may have caused.
 

ondarvr

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
11,527
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Appreciate the explanation. So what's the quickest, longest lasting way to bring an oxidised, daily driver up to a presentable appearance? I would like a good looking finish but time is limited for a working family man.


There isn't one quickest way, that's what complicates the issue, what works great on one boat may not work well on the next one.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

There isn't one quickest way, that's what complicates the issue, what works great on one boat may not work well on the next one.

Exactly!!! The pro's will generally advise a regiment of different gradient wet/dry paper, followed by multiple applications of finer rubing and polishing compounds. This can be a real put-off to new boaters, especially those who don't have a lot of "hands on" experience with body work, paint work and other auto body applications that loosely transfer to boat finish.

That is why I made the posts about using Comet cleanser followed by polishing using a very affordable (if not home-owner quality) polisher. The neat part of using classic Comet Cleanser is it has roughly the same abrasion as 400 grit paper, BUT, it is SOOOOO much easier to apply. Just a wet sponge, or scrub pad will mold to any contour. All you need is elbow power. The problems of the heavy backed wet/dry paper (actually cloth backed) are gone, especially the gouging that can happen in tight curved areas. A sponge contours easy, and everyone knows how to use Comet Cleanser - wet, sprinkle, scrub.

Then the inexpensive (about $40) polisher (see Harborfreight.com), plus less than $10 of auto rubbing and polishing compound tins from the local Auto Parts store will let beginners get a near professional high gloss finish for 1/10 the cost of a pro. And unless the gel coat is beyond rejuvenation, then the boater who wants to "do it themselves" can easily get a finish that looks fabulous, if not perfect from 6 feet away.

This process works especially well on older boats from the 50's, 60's and early 70's when gel coat was applied heavily. The oxidation and stains can be wiped off with the Comet, leaving fresh clean surface to be polished with the polisher.

Today, gel coat is much better, and holds up longer, so it is applied thinner. Sanding a new boat will be harder to do than an old one just due to the thickness of the gel.

IE: there is a big difference in the thickness of gel on my '65 MFG Niagara (from 3/16 to 5/16" depending on where it was applied) to my '85 Bayliner Capri (1/8 to 1/4" depending on location). Old boats tend to have thicker gel coats.

Oh, I almost forgot! One of the best parts of using a liquid abrasion compound like Comet is there is NO WORRY about cutting right through the gel into the glass, like can be done with wet paper and rubber sanding blocks. And that alone makes it especially safe for the member new to boat restoration.

Anyway that is my two cents. Not what the pros want to hear, but makes us low budget folks step up a rung or two......

Happy polishing!!!!

Mark
 

RobbyA

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
306
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Exactly!!! The pro's will generally advise a regiment of different gradient wet/dry paper, followed by multiple applications of finer rubing and polishing compounds. This can be a real put-off to new boaters, especially those who don't have a lot of "hands on" experience with body work, paint work and other auto body applications that loosely transfer to boat finish.

That is why I made the posts about using Comet cleanser followed by polishing using a very affordable (if not home-owner quality) polisher. The neat part of using classic Comet Cleanser is it has roughly the same abrasion as 400 grit paper, BUT, it is SOOOOO much easier to apply. Just a wet sponge, or scrub pad will mold to any contour. All you need is elbow power. The problems of the heavy backed wet/dry paper (actually cloth backed) are gone, especially the gouging that can happen in tight curved areas. A sponge contours easy, and everyone knows how to use Comet Cleanser - wet, sprinkle, scrub.

Then the inexpensive (about $40) polisher (see Harborfreight.com), plus less than $10 of auto rubbing and polishing compound tins from the local Auto Parts store will let beginners get a near professional high gloss finish for 1/10 the cost of a pro. And unless the gel coat is beyond rejuvenation, then the boater who wants to "do it themselves" can easily get a finish that looks fabulous, if not perfect from 6 feet away.

This process works especially well on older boats from the 50's, 60's and early 70's when gel coat was applied heavily. The oxidation and stains can be wiped off with the Comet, leaving fresh clean surface to be polished with the polisher.

Today, gel coat is much better, and holds up longer, so it is applied thinner. Sanding a new boat will be harder to do than an old one just due to the thickness of the gel.

IE: there is a big difference in the thickness of gel on my '65 MFG Niagara (from 3/16 to 5/16" depending on where it was applied) to my '85 Bayliner Capri (1/8 to 1/4" depending on location). Old boats tend to have thicker gel coats.

Anyway that is my two cents....

Happy polishing!!!!

Mark

Nice post!!! Thanks!!! It summed up about two weeks worth of thread reading. Now I know exactly what I want to do and why. Thanks again.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Using Petroleum Jelly (Vaseline) and other ?shining agents? on gel coat.

Nice post!!! Thanks!!! It summed up about two weeks worth of thread reading. Now I know exactly what I want to do and why. Thanks again.

Thanks! Its not magic, or a silver bullet, but the Comet and polisher actually produces fresh gel that is then polished to a high finish. Compare that to rubbing Vasiline or auto transmission fluid on the white, powdery gel, and you can see that one is a temporary band aid, the other is a mechanical change to the surface of the boat.

This pic shows how the gloss came up, and in the back ground the "cheap-o" polisher I paid about $30 for ( at that time ) can be seen. That cheap polisher now has about 50+ hours on it, and its still running strong. I would not care if it burned up tomorrow, because I got my money out of it. Its not a $300 polisher by Dewalt. Just let the weight of the machine do the work, don't lean or force it. That just makes it heat up and die.

Also notice how some areas are really high-gloss, like where my hand is, and other areas are just satin finish (to the far right). It all depends on how much time you want to put into it.

Before (note blotchy finish, stains and white powder):

307.jpg


After:

308.jpg


The very best part is it leaves more money for accessories!!!!
 
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