Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

[four winns 214]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Here's my perspective as an owner of both an Alpha 1 and a V-P Duoprop.

The Alpha 1 (actually, it is an MR-1 which is functionally the same as an Alpha 1) in my Sea Ray cuddy is more than 25 years old. I have owned it for seven years and it has taken me on 1,500+ miles cruising the Ohio, Cumberland, and Monogahela Rivers. I have paid to have the impeller changed three times and have also paid to have the bellows changed and alignment checked. Those are jobs I would rather leave to an experienced hand. I change drive oil and anodes myself. Other than that, that tough old bird just keeps churning the prop.

The V-P Duoprop on my Four Winns deckboat is a very nice drive. It shifts without the characteristic gear "crunch" of the Alpha and there is no left turning tendencies with the counter rotating props. I have the alignment checked by a pro, but change drive oil and impeller myself. The impeller is mounted on the front of the engine and an ape could be trained to change it. It's that simple.

I have had no major problems with either drive. If two boats were equal in all ways but the drive, I would choose the V-P. However, one issue to be considered: If professional work is needed, just about any body of water big enough to support an I/O powered boat has a Merc authorized shop stocked with parts on it or near by. Not so with V-P.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

FW, thanks - we have an engine shop within a mile who works on both Merc and VP.

We know the VP is likely to be more expensive, and that's certainly a factor. But since we do tend to be DIY'ers for most maintenance (including changing the impeller and pump in our 2004 Kawi jetski this past winter), it's good to know that the drive oil and impeller changes on the VP are easy.

 

[tpenfield]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

OK, my 2 cents . . .

This is what I would call a "Fords versus Chevies" type of issue.

If you have a particular boat in mind and the mechanical stuff is in good condition, the fact of the engine being Mercruiser or Volvo-Penta should not be a show stopper in any regard. It will probably be more of a decision around the particular engine package, etc.

But if you end up with the 'right boat' and it has the Mercruiser with Alpha, . . . not a show stopper. . . . not even an issue. IMHO

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

, it's good to know that the drive oil and impeller changes on the VP are easy.

The drive oil on a Volvo DP drive is not what I would call easy, in comparison to an Alpha. You have to remove both props on the DP to drain the oil need a special wrench, etc., not so on an Alpha. Also, comparing an Alpha to a DP is really apples to oranges. Alpha to SX drive is more relevant. Both are single prop drives.

I have had two boats with Alpha drive (current boat is one) a cruiser with a Volvo DP drive, and another cruiser with twin BIII drives. Never had a problem with any of them.

And to answer your original question, No bravo, Alpha, SX or DP drive would be considered a dealbreaker IMO. It's all about the condition of the running gear, and how it has been maintained.

 

[spoilsofwar]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

The drive oil on a Volvo DP drive is not what I would call easy, in comparison to an Alpha. You have to remove both props on the DP to drain the oil need a special wrench, etc., not so on an Alpha.

Even on the SX-A, you have to remove the prop; the drain is behind it. No special tools required. You also have to remove a cover off the upper drive to get to the vent. Not a big deal, but not as easy as an alpha. I dont believe alpha drives have the gear oil dipstick that the SX's do, though.

 

[Slip Away]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Yes, correct on all the above points on the SX drive. Thanks

 

[akorcovelos]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

IMO working on an Alpha is like working on a small block Chevy. Tons of info out there for any issue you would every want to tackle as a DIY'r, tons of after market support, cheaper parts, and very few (if any?) special tools needed. You can get a complete replacement drive from SEI for around $1500 with an awesome warranty if needed, not so with any bravo or VP drive.

I have an A1G1 from SEI and lover it. Very simple to maintain, affordable to run, and reliable as all get out. Also, you don't have to drain the gear case to change the impeller, though I don't see Why you wouldn't since it's part of spring maintenance anyway.

 

[drrpm]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

The Mercruiser Alpha and VP drives are both good. The Bravos will generally be on larger IO's with big block engines so its not really an apples to apples comparison to the alpha. I wouldn't have any qualms about any of those drives in particular, though the mercruisers are somewhat more common. My boat has the Mercruiser 5.0 MPI engine with an alpha 2 drive and other than an unfortunate incident with an unseen underwater object, I've had no trouble with it over the last 6 years.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Thanks everyone, for the continued discussion and additional info. It is helpful indeed to have a better idea of what we're getting into.

My spreadsheet has been a useful way of compiling the info. In the 2.5 weeks since I started it, I've logged 29 boats in CA. Only 7 are still in contention, for one reason or another - engine too small, carbureted instead of FI, shady dealer who says it's not possible to tell me number of hours on the boat, sold by the time we called, etc. SeaRay, Glastron, Chaparral, Monterey, Reinell and Four Winns have been the brands we've focused on.

SeaRays are pretty much now off the list, given their dry weight in comparison to the other boats.

Of the 29 boats, only 7 had Mercruisers. Not sure why that overwhelming preference for VP over Mercruiser, but it may be a CA thing - the new buyers preferred a European-sounding engine configuration over a non-thrilling Mercruiser.

Hoping we can find a boat before Memorial Day - they are definitely a hot ticket in CA right now....

 

[Don S]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

If you do go with a Volvo, avoid any with the XDP Composite outdrive. You can find them on boats from 2004 through 2008. That's how long it took Volvo to figure out they were total junk and the whole transom shield and drive setup was a maintenance headache.

 

[akorcovelos]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Just because a dealer can't tell you the hours on a boat doesn't mean they are shady, not all boats have hour meters.

 

[QC]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Of the 29 boats, only 7 had Mercruisers. Not sure why that overwhelming preference for VP over Mercruiser, but it may be a CA thing - the new buyers preferred a European-sounding engine configuration over a non-thrilling Mercruiser.

Nope. Not that.

Some Manufacturers get better deals with Volvo, and visa versa. Brunswick owns Mercruiser, SeaRay, Bayliner etc. There is some push back by other manufacturers due to that arrangement. Where I boat (Havasu), Volvo is sort of a downgrade. Also not rational, but Mercruiser is on anything fast there. Just is. Personally I consider Volvo, and especially DuoProps as awesome drives. Alphas are great, parts readily available, complete replacement drives available for cheap. In the boats you are looking at, and with your attention to detail and quality, I think it s B1, B3 or Volvo DP.

Proper Maintenance between all three will be reasonably close. Props are cheapest on Alphas, B1s too. B3s and DP prop costs are a factor if you run in any shallow water with chances of damage.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

If you do go with a Volvo, avoid any with the XDP Composite outdrive. You can find them on boats from 2004 through 2008. That's how long it took Volvo to figure out they were total junk and the whole transom shield and drive setup was a maintenance headache.

View attachment 187478

Aye, aye, Cap'n, we're clear on the XDP disaster. Thanks!

Sandi

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Just because a dealer can't tell you the hours on a boat doesn't mean they are shady, not all boats have hour meters.

Agreed. But that's not true for our set of boats - 2005 or newer Four Winns, Glastron, Monterey or Chaparral.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Nope. Not that.

Some Manufacturers get better deals with Volvo, and visa versa. Brunswick owns Mercruiser, SeaRay, Bayliner etc. There is some push back by other manufacturers due to that arrangement. Where I boat (Havasu), Volvo is sort of a downgrade. Also not rational, but Mercruiser is on anything fast there. Just is. Personally I consider Volvo, and especially DuoProps as awesome drives. Alphas are great, parts readily available, complete replacement drives available for cheap. In the boats you are looking at, and with your attention to detail and quality, I think it s B1, B3 or Volvo DP.

Interesting. Thanks for the perspective. My husband is not interested in a DP setup. So we're looking at VP SX, or Mercruiser A1's/B1's in almost everything we've seen. Don't think we've seen a single B3, since we're looking at 300 hp or less.

Proper Maintenance between all three will be reasonably close. Props are cheapest on Alphas, B1s too. B3s and DP prop costs are a factor if you run in any shallow water with chances of damage.

Yep. We also read in one of the technical writeups that DH came across that B3's are typically used on more flat hull boats, since the B3 gets deeper into the water with more flat thrust. Not sure I buy it, but it's interesting to read widely on these things.

 

[QC]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

we're looking at 300 hp or less

Sounds like Volvo SX or A1. Doubt you'll find many B1s with less than 300. Some 350 MAG 300s though. B3's are same height as B1. I've never heard any flat hull recommendations. Sounds backwards actually. But never mind. Not in your wheel house. Nothing wrong with an SX in your size/horsepower range.

 

[Sandi_k]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Sounds liek Volvo SX or A1. Doubt you'll find many B1s with less than 300. Some 350 MAG 300s though. B3's are same height as B1. I've never heard any flat hull recommendations. Sounds backwards actually. But never mind. Not in your wheel house. Nothing wrong with an SX in your size/horsepower range.

The report said the B3's are good for things like party boats, where the hulls are flatter but the weight is high. And I think it discussed the prop pitch...

I didn't pay much attention, since we're not looking for a party boat. Wives know how to say "Yes, dear" too.

 

[tazrig]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

Just re-powered with twin alpha gen 2's. my last set lasted 22 years and were still going strong after 22 years. I did nothing to them other than oil changes every 50 hours and at the end of the season and water pumps every 2 years. Never a leak. Never a problem.

 

[agallant80]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

I hope this helps. I had a dealer tell me if you break an alpha then you will fix it your self if you break a bravo you will be calling the insurance company. Most common way these drives break is hitting something. Same is true for Volvo SX and DP. Also keep in mind the prop cost single props are about $120 dual props cost about $1,000. Just the prop cost alone makes the internal water pump on the alpha look not so bad.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: Used Chaparrals - Vp or Mercruiser a Deal Breaker?

I hope this helps. I had a dealer tell me if you break an alpha then you will fix it your self if you break a bravo you will be calling the insurance company. Most common way these drives break is hitting something. Same is true for Volvo SX and DP. Also keep in mind the prop cost single props are about $120 dual props cost about $1,000. Just the prop cost alone makes the internal water pump on the alpha look not so bad.

A duo prop of either Merc or Volvo is worth the price of the props. After having a duo prop drive, I would never even consider a single prop drive again.

If you hit something, highly unlikely you are fixing it yourself no matter what the drive. Sounds like that dealer was trying to talk you into a boat with an Alpha.