ummm this can't be good

[madhatr02]

First off seems like a very cool forum. I just bought a hunting jon boat for duck hunting yeah me!! Got it home late last night. I got it very cheap and bought it from a very young guy so I knew it was a crap shoot. he claimed the starter was out so motor would not start. Boat was ugly but has a TON of potential.
Motor is a 1996 Force 40HP ELPT (whatever that means). First thing I did was open the vent hole and take out the drain plug. I was expecting to see some old fluid come out it smelled like old fluid except..............it was about a cup of water and nothing more..............

Not hitting the panic button and not saying it is trash yet. Everything engages like it is supposed to and the prop still spins, there was not a ton of metal shavings either.

Other than filling it with fluid as a start to check for leaks anything that I need to check as a sign that the lower unit is toast? Guy used it for fishing some this summer but really don't have any other details about the use of the boat.

 

[itchin4fun]

Re: ummm this can't be good

from what u said sounds like engine had either been submerged or blown head gaskets if oil looking milky if so your exhaust should be white smoke coming out

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

from what u said sounds like engine had either been submerged or blown head gaskets if oil looking milky if so your exhaust should be white smoke coming out

I guess I made it a little more confusing than I meant to. There was NO oil in the lower unit just water came out of the drain hole. There was that gear oil smell but just water.

 

[eclark53520]

Re: ummm this can't be good

Without completely tearing the lower unit apart, the only thing you can do is fill it up and run it to see if there is anything weird about it.

You won't do any more damage doing that than is already done(if there is any damage done).

 

[capri1600]

Re: ummm this can't be good

I'd start with changing the lower unit fluid. Get the starter fixed or whatever is necessary to at least be able to crank the engine to do a compression check. If it's ok then get the engine running and in the water. Use a quality synthetic 2 stroke premix oil. Run it for a little and check for proper shifting. Make sure you are not overheating the engine at any time and make a point of shifting it a number of times. If everything seems ok, take it home and drain the lower unit. Look for water and metal shavings just as you already have. Next, drop the lower unit and change the water pump impeller. If the lower unit oil was clear of water and shavings I'd refill and go have fun.
I'd drop the lower unit and change the impeller from the start if you cannot determine if you are getting proper flow. Remember to have the engine on the water hose even when cranking for a compression test lest you tear up the water pump impeller.

Marty
http://www.martyhammersmith.com

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

Will do. I also spent some more time with it and figured out the problem, however I have no clue where to get the parts or what they are called.

My engine has the rubber fill tube grommet on the back side of the motor I pulled it off and looked down and saw the ground......... The plate that is right above the prop is GONE and also the fill tube is gone so basically as soon as it was under water all the fluid went out and the water went in so I have to figure out what the plate is called and I guess the other is the fill tube......ugh

 

[ezmobee]

Re: ummm this can't be good

from what u said sounds like engine had either been submerged or blown head gaskets if oil looking milky if so your exhaust should be white smoke coming out

2 stroke motor.

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

ok the plot thickens, the part that is missing is the "trim tab" but the guy is saying that "tube-water" which is the other part I am missing is not where the gear oil goes in so I am gonna run some test and see what is up

 

[Huron Angler]

Re: ummm this can't be good

ELPT means electic start, power trim/tilt if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: ummm this can't be good

If the lower unit had no oil, only wayer inside it, it is VERY likely that the seal under the water pump has failes. This will pump water into the lower and blow out all the oil in short time. If you have the time and mechanical aptitude, you really should disassemble the lower unit to see if the pinion has started to wear due to lack of lubrication and also check to see if there is any rust. Very often, if the lower unit has not been opened, the water will have all the free oxygen removed and the internals will not have much rust. BUT you won't know until you check it.

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

Guys first off thanks for all replies. Here is kind of where I am at.

1. Starter won't be here until Friday so I am doing a lot of the work I needed to do to my boat itself.

2. This missing "tube-water" that is missing has me baffled as to what its purpose is it runs basically over the prop up on the top end of the lower unit, I guess it is important so I don't even know if I should attempt to try and start it without it once I get my starter. I ordered it but doesn't look like it will be in till early next week.

3. Once it is safe to start the motor I am gonna run it with the mouse ears on for a while in the driveway shifting gears etc checking to make sure not to overheat the motor, then I am gonna drain the new gear oil I put in and see what it looks like.

4. I am mechanically inclined but as mentioned before in another post this motor has no drain hole so I am still trying to figure out how to tell if the impellor is even working.

I only have $400 bucks in the motor so I am at a point where I can cut my losses and not spend the next 2 weeks spending money left and right trying to chase down is the water pump ok, is the impeller ok, is the rusted etc, etc may just look for a new motor which sucks because the motor is in decent shape..........funny thing is I never really have messed with lower gear oil but for some reason I checked this one glad I did.

Lesson learned I guess.

 

[capri1600]

Re: ummm this can't be good

No, dont get discouraged and start looking for another motor. You're just as apt to have problems with some other motor. Heck if the compression is good and you can get it running, even if the lower unit is completely trashed, you can just replace it. Frank is right, the only way to know for sure what';s going on down there is to take it apart. However, I'd leave that to last. Get it running first. I think you are on the right track. By the way, look at the thread about tell-tales and see if you can put one on this engine. I added one to my Force 85 and what peace of mind it offers even though I also have the buzzer installed.

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

yeah not going to throw in the towel yet mainly because the people on this site seem to be so helpful and these motors seem pretty easy to work on and parts are very common between them and mercury motors they are pretty easy to get parts for. Gonna order a water pump kit today with new impellor and seal it isn't that expensive and when I change that I will get the joy of dropping the lower unit...............which will be a first for me.

 

[capri1600]

Re: ummm this can't be good

yeah not going to throw in the towel yet mainly because the people on this site seem to be so helpful and these motors seem pretty easy to work on and parts are very common between them and mercury motors they are pretty easy to get parts for. Gonna order a water pump kit today with new impellor and seal it isn't that expensive and when I change that I will get the joy of dropping the lower unit...............which will be a first for me.

Yeah, I think you have the right idea. Someone will have that piece of info you need when you need it. Thse forums encouraged me to grind all the wood out of on old Bayliner I couldnt decide whether to keep or cut up. Capri1600 is my user name cause it's a Bayliner Capri 16ft boat. I moved the engine over to a 1972 Glastron GT150 in the meantime. Dropping the lower unit should be interesting for you. It was for me this first time. It's neat to see how the powerhead, mid section and lower unit were engineered and kept as seperate assemblies.

Marty
http://www.martyhammersmith.com

 

[madhatr02]

Re: ummm this can't be good

Just a little update. Starter came in Friday so I slapped it on and it instantly started up. Ran for a very short period just to shift gears see if I heard any strange noises etc. It runs fine sounds good but after only the short time I ran it there was already water in the gear oil. I had already ordered the new water pump kit because I figured it was leaking after the advice I recieved here. Got the boat finished just waiting on my parts to come in from Mercury and then I will be bravely dropping the lower unit.

I got all the material to make a telltale but my engine (96 40hp+) does not have a screw or a metal plug it has a plastic plug and that sucker ain't budging and I don't want to tear the little tab on the top off because it is only plastic.

Anyway it was nice to hear it run, no white smoke and when I did drain the gear oil there was only a very small amount of shavings on the drain plug.