U-Joints for 2003 Alpha One Gen 2

[stormulus]

Update:
Took my boat out yesterday and listened closely during various speeds and turns, and it didn't seem to be louder than usual. yesterday it was just my wife and I, while last Saturday when I thought it was louder than usual, the boat was near capacity and we also towed a large tube at times. not sure if that would, or should, make a difference. So the boat is staying in the water for now and I'll monitor it further when we go back out today.

My hearing aids have a button on one that turns up volume for both, the other has a button that turns volume down on both. Perhaps I hit the increase button when I took them off to go in the water. I'll test that theory today.

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[stormulus]

Automotive is quite different , very important is the diameter of the ujoint, message me anyone who wants this GKN oem
View attachment 347741

the part number on those looks like the Sierra number

 

[Kubaat3lover]

It’s just a photo from the internet, in previous posts I’ve linked eBay auction

 

[stormulus]

Ah okay

 

[Rick Stephens]

I don't know how many people run automotive joints - hint, it's a LOT. I am. Been for years. You do not hear about people blowing up automotive u-joints. And I disagree that marine are very different. Same factories, same stuff.

 

[Chris1956]

Rick, I actually inspected the Mercruiser u joint next to the automotive replacement I was planning to install. I removed the bearing caps and compared the rollers and races. The mercruiser u joint had different size rollers than the automotive u Joint. The OD of the caps and the cross sizes matched exactly. However for the price ($10 vs $55), I thought I would try the automotive U joints. I used them for several years w/o and issue, and then sold the boat.

There are likely automotive U joints that match MerCruiser exactly, however, I did not find them.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Rick, I actually inspected the Mercruiser u joint next to the automotive replacement I was planning to install. I removed the bearing caps and compared the rollers and races. The mercruiser u joint had different size rollers than the automotive u Joint. The OD of the caps and the cross sizes matched exactly. However for the price ($10 vs $55), I thought I would try the automotive U joints. I used them for several years w/o and issue, and then sold the boat.

There are likely automotive U joints that match MerCruiser exactly, however, I did not find them.

Chris, I get it. I don't care. There are dozens of people I know running the 'smaller' automotive u-joints without any issues. You hear of no one blowing up joints. I have been running them ever since the first Mercruiser I got to maintain back in the late 70's.

 

[Chris1956]

So, we are in violent agreement, that the auto u joints run OK, even though they are different?

 

[Scott06]

Automotive is quite different , very important is the diameter of the ujoint, message me anyone who wants this GKN oem
View attachment 347741

Just to keep fanning the flames.... I just bought a pair of Moog 344s for my upcoming bellows job. Obviously the OD is the same, the marine joint cross diameter of .701" is .655" on the moog. I cant see this making any difference in longevity.

I guess I must be bored so I also ordered Spicer 5-3214X joints to compare. I'll post those sizes when I get them.

 

[AShipShow]

You should be good to go with a 2003 model drive... From what I've seen, all the drives '96 and up used a ujoint with a pretty easily sourced automotive equivalent...
My drive is a 95 and uses a ujoint that basically doesn't exist outside of the Merc OEM and 3rd party marine manufacturers like Sierra.

I searched through every single u-joint manufacturers cross-reference chart I could find referencing the OD of the bearing caps and cross dimensions and not a single major manufacturer made this u-joint... checked (spicer/moog/SKF/neapco/dana/etc..)

 

[Kubaat3lover]

Because its made by GKN

 

[Kubaat3lover]

Just to keep fanning the flames.... I just bought a pair of Moog 344s for my upcoming bellows job. Obviously the OD is the same, the marine joint cross diameter of .701" is .655" on the moog. I cant see this making any difference in longevity.

I guess I must be bored so I also ordered Spicer 5-3214X joints to compare. I'll post those sizes when I get them.

Scott please share your experience with 3214 take care

 

[Scott06]

Scott please share your experience with 3214 take care

Ok before this gets as worthless as an oil thread… the spicer cross diameter was .640” so as rick said they will work just fine. The spicer was more $ than the moog so id go that route.

 

[Rick Stephens]

Ok before this gets as worthless as an oil thread… the spicer cross diameter was .640” so as rick said they will work just fine. The spicer was more $ than the moog so id go that route.

I like Valvoline Full Synthetic

 

[stormulus]

You should be good to go with a 2003 model drive... From what I've seen, all the drives '96 and up used a ujoint with a pretty easily sourced automotive equivalent...
My drive is a 95 and uses a ujoint that basically doesn't exist outside of the Merc OEM and 3rd party marine manufacturers like Sierra.

I searched through every single u-joint manufacturers cross-reference chart I could find referencing the OD of the bearing caps and cross dimensions and not a single major manufacturer made this u-joint... checked (spicer/moog/SKF/neapco/dana/etc..)

I've done a lot of "research" on this topic that leads me to believe that you should be able to use the same u-joint a the 94 or 95 drives. I'm writing up a summary and will post it shortly.

 

[AShipShow]

I've done a lot of "research" on this topic that leads me to believe that you should be able to use the same u-joint a the 94 or 95 drives. I'm writing up a summary and will post it shortly.

I've physically tried and they had a different diameter bearing cap

 

[stormulus]

Ok before this gets as worthless as an oil thread… the spicer cross diameter was .640” so as rick said they will work just fine. The spicer was more $ than the moog so id go that route.

Thanks for the input. I'm curious if you happened to compare inside of the caps on the spicer and moog u-joints for any obvious differences, such as races or anything else.

 

[stormulus]

after starting this thread and achris fixed the link to the u-joint sticky which dates to 2008, I noticed that the links within the u-joint sticky weren't working. It seemed that the links may have provided aftermarket marine u-joint alternatives to the OEM parts, and possibly automotive u-joint parts, but I'm not clear on that. However within that sticky was also listed a series of automotive u-joint alternatives, but I kept coming back to the question: To which drives is that list applicable? I also noticed there was an edit to the 1st post in the sticky, which looks to have been made in 2014 that reads:
EDIT: These numbers are also used for Volvo Penta, OMC, and older Mercruiser drives.
Any drive that used the inside C type circlip to hold the ujoints together.
So it seemed the list was unlikely to applicable to my drive, which seemed to need the external clips. That got me to searching the internet for as much information as I could find, and I share that below.

Alpha One Gen 2 drives are commonly grouped by the following year ranges: 1991 to 1995; 1996 and 1997; and 1998 and up. There are three u-joint part numbers that cover this range (either the original number or were superceded to these numbers). However the 1991 to 1995 range uses two of them, and the 1998 & up range uses two. Fortunately several of the online OEM part suppliers provide more information, either by serial numbers or other identifiable info. Below is a summary of what I found for Alpha One Gen 2 drives for OEM part numbers:

1991 to 1995
SN 0D469859 to 0D89999 use OEM part #75832T1. Note that the yoke to the coupler will have 2 O-rings
SN 0D870000 to 0F679999 use OEM part #805536A2. Note that the yoke to the coupler will have 3 O-rings

The switch seems to occur somewhere in the 1993 model year

1996 and 1997
SN 0F680000 to 0K999999 use OEM part #805536A2 (internal clips)

1998 and up
SN 0L100040 to 0M400411 use OEM part # 805536A2 (internal clips) - see note below
SN 0M400412 and up use OEM part # 865496A02 (external clips) - see note below.
Note: OEM suppliers show the SN ranges indicated above, however some aftermarket marine suppliers show the 2nd group starting at SN 0L949779 and up instead of 0M400412 and up. Therefore if within this range, internal or external clips will help identify.

The switch seems to have occurred during the 2002 to 2003 model years

U-joint cross references
Aftermarket marine alternatives are based on cross references indicating compatibility. I did not check if all are still available. Also I have never used any of the automotive alternatives. They are shown as suggested alternatives based on user provided information at iboats forum and at other places on the internet.

OEM # 75832T1
(note: this part number is also listed for numerous drives dating back to 1967, including Alpha 1 gen 1 drives.)
Aftermarket Marine Alternatives:
Sierra 18-2174
Mallory 9-72405
GLM 28030

Automotive Alternatives - I have seen several threads where the following list was suggested when questions were asked regarding Alpha One Gen 1 drives, but there was no follow up as to if they actually worked. One question was asked regarding a Volvo 280, which uses this same part number, and the list below was suggested. The Volvo owner responded that it was successful. It is interesting that this same list applies to OEM #805536A2 (see below) however the aftermarket marine numbers are different. Therefore this list would be a suggested place to compare OEM to automotive. Measurements should be verified.
MOOG# 315G
SPICER# 5-1306X (if part comes with fitting on cap it should be moved the alternate location and cap plugged)
ROCKFORD#K1306
DETROIT# 7260
NEAPCO#1-6300/1-6301


OEM #805536A2 (internal clips)
Aftermarket Marine Alternatives:
Sierra 18-2097
Mallory 9-72406
GLM 28040

Automotive Alternatives - I have seen a number of threads where someone has indicated that they have used the Moog and Spicer parts successfully (based on year of drive or SN provided). The others appear in the sticky; some are shown in cross reference charts.
MOOG# 315G
SPICER# 5-1306X (if part comes with fitting on cap it should be moved the alternate location and cap plugged)
ROCKFORD#K1306
DETROIT# 7260
NEAPCO#1-6300/1-6301

OEM # 865496A02 (external clips)-
Aftermarket Marine Alternatives:
Sierra 18-6406
Mallory 9-72413
Mallory 9-72414

Automotive Alternatives
In addition to Scott06 mentioning (above) the Moog and Spicer parts shown below, I have seen several other threads listing the same parts. One thread indicated their sizes were confirmed by a technician, along with the Weasler part.
Moog 344
Spicer 5-3214X
Weasler 200-8474

 

[tank1949]

I guess my bottom line question is, has anyone with an Alpha One Gen 2 drive with a serial number of 0M400411 and above successfully used and after market u-joint, and know what it was?

Pull and take ujoint to NAPA autoparts to mic. I'd bet that they have one to fit.

 

[stormulus]

I've physically tried and they had a different diameter bearing cap

did you use the same measuring device on the new ones as you did for the ones that came off your drive? if not, could the calibration be off one one of them?