Trying to decide which boat to pick

[bryceman2712]

Hi everyone, been reading the form for awhile but decided to join and seek opinions from people with more experience. and if you was to slip and fall into a boat you'd have more boating experience than me. Been saving my money for a long time and finally have enough to get a boat for me and my family( wife and 4 yr old) and I've narrowed it down to 2 really nice looking local boats. Boat A) is a 1993 Rinker 18 ft. bow rider with a 3.0 very nice very clean been well taken care of as far as i can see in the pictures. and boat B is a 1992 Century Mustang 19 ft bow rider with 4.3. also very nice looking in the pictures. i am going to see each boat tomorrow and go through my "checklist" i picked up off the forums. each boat is priced the exact same right around 5,000 bucks which is a lot to me. main use would be going out on a lake, maybe pull a tube, or take my brother and his kids out with us and just enjoy the boat

is there anything i should know about either of these 2 boats or motors. was worried about buying a boat thats 20+ yrs old but i'm a handy guy and pretty mechanically well rounded. also is it really common when buying a used boat off of a private seller to pull plugs to check comp? and being that it is still winter ,although 50+ temp here, should i make a purchase based on a dry land start (with muffs)? i am trying to make this the best summer ever for my family and just dont want it to be the worst mistake ever. last year we did a lot of camping and everyone wanted to get on the boats at the lake.

thank all of you for your time and any advise is much appreciated

 

[fhhuber]

Need to do drill tests to check for rot before closing the sale. Make that the final condition just prior to handing over money. It passes the drill tests or you aren't buying.

Its selecting locations in the transom and any accessible stringers to actually drill... and check if the wood inside is dry (usually light brown which is good).... or dark, and moist. (failed... nope... run fast)

Actually, if I had it all to do over again.... I'd be buying a hull that had as little wood involved in its construction as possible. 4-stroke outboard or I/O, not a 2-stroke.
Or a sailboat... with an electric troller to deal with docking.

Since you know essentially nothing about boats... you need lessons in boat handling for whatever type you plan to get. It might look like driving a car, but its not even close.
Also.. at least one class for EVERYONE in proper life jacket use . My opinion (for over 40 years) has been... if its under 40 ft, EVERYONE wears the life jacket all the time.

 

[tpenfield]

Bryceman,

Welcome to iBoats. :welcome:

You have come to a good place. Lots of folks have traveled the road you are on and I am sure many will offer their words of wisdom.

You are in a precarious situation in that the budget range of $5K generally puts you into the older boats, and as you say 20+ years old. Lots of folks get into boating claiming to be handy or a decent wrench turner and then they hit the wall of reality as they attempt to deal with the things that a boat can throw at you.

My words of advice.:

The Boat's Structure . . .
Most boats of the 20+ year old (1980's-1990's) era have a significant amount of wood in them. Even though they are 'fiberglass' boats, the hull itself is fiberglass, but the supporting structure (i.e. the skeleton of the boat) is wood. Wood + Water + Time = Rotted Wood, which means the supporting structure of the boat becomes weak. So, older boats that look nice on the outside, may have serious issues of deterioration on the inside. Most of these places where the deterioration hides are tough to see, so you will have to look in places that a casual buyer would not generally look.

Theoretically, the boat builders are supposed to encase the wood with fiberglass as a means of keeping the water out so it will last longer. The reality is that very few if any do a thorough enough job to achieve that goal. So, that is where maintenance can play a role in adding longevity to a boat's life, and it is more than just cleaning and shining. Lots of folks here have bought boats like what you are considering, and that maybe the had a 'soft spot' or two on the floor, only to find a world of hurt below deck when they went to fix the floor.

So, the boat's structure is an important thing to check. Things like soft spots, discoloration, trapped water, sweating of the hull all can be signs of problems below. More significant tests are to drill into parts of the boat's structure to see if they are wet or rotted, but a seller is not likely to let anyone do that. So, you have to look for the less obvious signs.

After so many years of use, the brand of boat becomes somewhat meaningless, it is the actual condition that they are in that matters to you the buyer.

Mechanical Stuff . . .
Engines usually run great 'in the driveway' and 'on the muffs', so that alone would not be indicative of good engine. If you cannot lake test the boat, then I would at least want to have a compression test after running on the 'muffs' for 20 minutes or so.

Outdrives are interesting . . . sort of like the marine equivalent of an automobile transmission . . . lots of weird shaped parts, etc. My advice is to study up on the outdrives. Mercruiser and Volvo-Penta are good OMC is generally bad because they are no longer in business and rightfully so.

Boat Size . . .
18-19 feet is a good starter boat for someone who has never even fallen into a boat. Don't expect to take a 'boat load' of people out though, as the boat will seem small once you get it in the water and start putting people and gear aboard.

Safety . . .
Take a Power Squadron or Coast Guard Aux. 'safe boating' course if you have not already done so. Boating is dangerous and problematic, it only looks like fun. So, it is best to know the rules of seamanship and safe boating. Also, boats seldom, if ever, break down in the driveway. They always seem to brake down when you are out in the middle of the lake (or ocean) and the dark clouds are moving in. So, be ready with knowledge of your boat's systems and have basic tools on board to fix things that might go wrong. Also it is nice to have a subscription to a boat towing service, if your boating warrants it. SeaTow and Boat U.S are major towing brands.

That's what I got so far, others will have more to add.

 

[airdvr1227]

I'll just add that all things being equal you'll have more fun with the 4.3L.

 

[Newbie@boats]

I just bought my boat on a very limited budget not really to sure where you're from but it seemed everyone I dealt with in the 5K price range was willing to take almost half, I bought an 01 Bayliner with a 3.0L he was asking 5K for it and I ended up getting it for $3000 so don't be afraid to negotiate

 

[BWR1953]

Lots of good advice here.

If the owners won't let you drill into their boats (I sure wouldn't) then see if they'll let you take some photos under the deck and other locations. As others have said, time and water are the enemies of these old boats.

Here are a couple pix of a boat that I bought for cheap and thought I got a fantastic deal... until I was able to get a camera into the space below deck but above the bottom of the hull. The fiberglass had separated from the side and bottom and the foam as well. One thing I learned from that experience is to take a rubber mallet when inspecting the hulls. Whack the bottom of the hull underneath and listen for rattling sounds. If it rattles, move on. But even that is no guarantee.

Another thing to consider is that for $5k or even less, you can get an aluminum boat in your size and performance range that has already been restored/refurbished and with a good running engine.

Couple pix of under deck rot.

 

[keith2k455]

I agree with airdvr on the 4.3 being more fun, all else equal. If you are as mechanical as you say, trust your instincts on the motor. Know anything you do to the drive will take twice as long as you plan and is heavier and more expensive than you think.

Condition of the structure had been mentioned. In all honesty, with the budget you have, I would wait til season starts to buy. This way you can get a sea test and once the boat is back on the trailer, look for any water intrusion in all the nooks and crannies. Any intrusion should be a sign that there is s high chance of rot. I remember two boats I wanted about 6 years ago. One had a soft floor and was priced around $10k. The other had a 4.3 motor and a 3.0 out drive for about $6k. Very glad I didn't buy them cause now I know I was looking at a"Franken boat " and one that most likely had rot. Not saying to wait and spend a ton of money, but the sea trial on the boats you're looking at is probably very important.

Don't forget about the trailer too. Bad bearings, tires and brakes can cost you $500+ really quickly

 

[fhhuber]

Of course, boats are cheaper in the off-season... Start of season demand goes up so price goes up and its harder to find a good used boat that is for sale.

The guy selling in off season wants "the useless thing" out of his driveway/garage.

This is more noticeable in places where the water gets hard enough to walk on...
Around here there is essentially no off-season for fishing boats. But we do see the ski boat prices go up and down. And sailboats are as low as half now what they would be in peak sailing season.

 

[thumpar]

One other thing to check is the drive for water. Open up the bottom plug and drain a tad out. It should be lube. If there is water it will drain out first.

 

[SkiDad]

i personally would not buy a boat without a water test - anyone serious about selling a 5000 boat will do this for you, even if you have to give them 20 bucks for gas. I passed up a few boats b/c they would not do it.

And listen for things like: covered all the time or garage kept, winterized yearly, yearly fluid changes, etc. The boat I got 4 years ago was garage kept for 25 years and you could have eaten off the engine or carpet. I paid a little more than i should have b/c the condition was so good. We've put 4 years of kid wear on it now and it still looks pretty good.

it depends on the layout of the boat - but an extra foot is a big deal, especially in an I/O

 

[eddie haskell]

I just want to add one other thought, oh, BTW, I bought a 1959 Glasspar Seafair a couple years ago. It had a deck replaced by PO, however, I wanted a bilge pump in a location that required me to cut up a section of that deck....
While in there I got a great look at the stringers, original, and as hard as a rock still. So even tho its old, if taken care of, it can still be good to go....
Anyway, since it seems you are new to boating, I want to add get your sea legs BEFORE you invite others aboard.
Learn docking, boarding, boat handling, etc. for with a boat load of guest is not the time to do it, and what you thought might be a fun outing can quickly turn into straining a relationship......

 

[Old Ironmaker]

You have received great advice here. Would you buy a used car for 5 grand and not take it for a spin around the block at least? If the boat isn't tested on the water get a good written warranty for when it is.

 

[fhhuber]

For docking... learn what a "Spring line" is...

too many think you just tie the bow and stern to the dock and walk off.
Might work for a few minutes. but its a good way to have your boat try to beat the dock to death with its nose (or tail) in a slip.

 

[bryceman2712]

thank you all for your advise, lot of things i never thought about. honestly i'm terrified now. lol. many things to think about and i will def take pictures of undersides to look for separations. i was afraid that in 2 months these $5,000 boats would become more like 8 or $9,000. i see a lot of bayliners and others with outboard motors great shape for $1,000 -1500 less would we have as much fun tubing with an outboard motor? again thank all of you for your help and guidance. leaving shortly to see my first boat

 

[Old Ironmaker]

thank you all for your advise, lot of things i never thought about. honestly i'm terrified now. lol. many things to think about and i will def take pictures of undersides to look for separations. i was afraid that in 2 months these $5,000 boats would become more like 8 or $9,000. i see a lot of bayliners and others with outboard motors great shape for $1,000 -1500 less would we have as much fun tubing with an outboard motor? again thank all of you for your help and guidance. leaving shortly to see my first boat

This a great place to educate your self for certain. I have little experience towing for skiing etc. An outboard will always give you more power out if the hole than a like rated inboard I believe. Bayliners are entry level boats for those buying new, not many bells and whistles new. I have seen some beautiful used Bayliners. I wouldn't think any used boat will almost double the price because of when it's sold, not in our market here for sure.

Please don't feel terrified, experience is a lifetime of mistakes, wisdom is knowing how not to repeat them. One can make up for some experience with educating ones self too. I bought my first "real" boat at 54 years old. I cringe at how little I knew thinking back when I bought. I have learned more about boats in the last 7 years than I did in the first 54. I actually volunteered my time at a local Marina to learn and am flipping boats now with a few fellas as a hobby, they called me Padiwan when we started. This month I changed the Gimbal bearing and boots on a Mercruiser. I didn't know what a Gimbal bearing was a few years ago.

.It gets better and better every year on the water. Read here on all and every subject concerning boating here and other sites, then read more.

 

[bryceman2712]

ok I think I'm going to go with the '92 century mustang. It is very nice boat engine ran for 20+ minutes smooth idle engine was clean, the outdrive was clean. Guy shut it down and it fired right back up without any hesitation. All the fiberglass in the engine bay area was solid, no cracks or places of epoxy or repairs. Interior was in really good shape for its age a couple small things with interior but I'm not buying a brand new boat. Floor was solid all around no soft or spongy feeling areas. I was surprised how clean this motor was. The guy has had this boat for 19 years and now wants a pontoon for his larger fam and grand kids. New starter, alternator, water pump, impeller, and bellows. he had the outdrive in a cut down barrel with a water antifreeze mix bc we are still in winter and just overall appearances he takes care of his things (garage cleaner than mine) lol. I thank all of you for your time and advise. Meeting with him tmrw so my wife can see it and talk money!!!

 

[airshot]

Seeing how this is your first boat and you have little to no experience and you are looking at older glass hulls......your chances of finding one that has no hidden rot is not very high. If I might suggest consider looking at an aluminum hull boat, leaky rivets are easy to fix when compared to a rotted hull. Alum hull boats only have wood in the transom and if rotten is not hard to replace and aluminum does not rot or decay. If someday you want to move up to a newer or larger boat then consider a glass hull but as a starter...I would definitely consider aluminum. I have been a boater on lake erie for 50 yrs and currently own a 22' aluminum boat, owned 2 glass hulls in my lifetime, both were nothing but trouble, for me its aluminum all the way. Mine is a 1983 and no rot...

 

[SkiDad]

bryceman2712 - i sent you a private message.

 

[jayhanig]

There's a lot of good advice already offered but here's the first things that popped into my head:

1) Where are you going to be boating? Take a look at what others in that area use and take a clue from them. For example, I came from an inland area so my idea of a boat was a I/O bowrider like what my friends at the lake all seemed to have. When I moved down here to the coast, very few people have I/Os due to corrosion issues with salt water cooling. The consequence is I have very few options when I need repairs. I'm at the mercy of the mechanics if I can find one who is willing to work on a sterndrive.and if they want to screw me, all I can do is take it and smile. The OB guys can go anywhere to get their engines fixed so competition keeps them fiscally healthier than folks like me.

2) Walk around everywhere on that boat looking for mushy decking. Everywhere... even under the engine doghouse if it's an O/B. Do the same to the transom. If there's any soft spots anywhere, it's going to be an expensive and involved repair. Find another candidate to buy.

3) Ask to see the title. Make sure it's properly filled out and that the signature of the last owner is that of the guy who's standing in front of you selling the boat. I had one hell of a time once buying a motorcycle where the guy selling it had bought the bike a month earlier intending to flip it. He had the guy he bought it from fill out the title but he never registered it himself. It turned out the original seller had filled his information out incorrectly and then disappeared. I eventually found him but had a very difficult time getting him to refill out the title so I could register it. I had no leverage over him as he'd already been paid by the 2nd owner. I had the short end of the stick and wasn't able to ride my motorcycle for the first 6 weeks until I was able to find the guy and browbeat him into doing the right thing. Save yourself the trouble.

4. Ask to see the title for the trailer. If he doesn't have one or if he claims it's easy to get, be prepared to walk away unless you get enough of a drop in the price to be able to get a legitimately titled trailer. Believe me, if it was that easy to get a title, he'd have gotten one. Who wants to drive down the road pulling a trailer without a tag on it? It screams to the police: "Pull me over, PLEASE!"

Anyway, that's all the wisdom I'm going to give away for free.

 

[bryceman2712]

Again thanks to everyone for all advice given. My wife, son and myself spent almost 2 hours with him and his wife today. Really great people they live 15 minutes from us so that added confidence and hes had the boat for 18 years. He even encouraged me to look around and find exactly what we want( yesterday). Walked me through everything on this boat, safety features, things he has modified,docking and loading, (his wife even walked my wife through her portion) down to servicing it and even told me how to soak riders in the bow . Also got anchor, cover, ski's, 5 life jackets, sun shade canopy thing, 2 paddles, muffs, and more that I don"t remember thrown in with a price I was very happy with. When he started it today for my wife to hear, again it fired right up like a dream. I felt the motor before hand and it hadn't been ran before we got there. I told the guy my one concern was the transom having rot and he shook the out drive and went and got a hammer and walked all around that boat and it was solid all around no rattling, and no cracks in glass in the engine bay and he said other than drilling this is how you check for these things. Which is what I've read on here.

I have been down the "not hard to get a title road" before and that's why I have an 8 foot utility trailer setting that I can't do anything with. You wouldn't believe how many people are selling boats with a trailer that has no title. We actually passed on several boats out of state that had paperwork issues.

So trying to get this boat in my garage. HAHAHAHA it's a 19 ft boat 21 ft garage no problem. HAHAHA except the out drive hangs out 2 feet and so does the trailer tongue. Backed it in as far as I could, still hung out 4 feet ( mind you my driveway is a small hill ) chalked the rear tires dropped the boat and pushed it sideways and rest of the way back into the garage. Had to remove the dolphin fin and I had 1/2" inch to spare on the big garage door. Thank all of you for your words of wisdom in my first boat buying experience and we're very happy to become part of the boating community. Brings me back to when I was young we had a fishing boat for 1 summer was the best ever and i can hardly remember because I was so young. Can not wait til spring to start making memories with my wife and son.