Trolling questions

[impatico]

I have a couple questions about trolling with a new bowrider (don't know which one yet)

I don't know if I want a kicker, electric bow mount, or trolling plate.

I want to run my stereo while fishing, I have 2 amps running although I would switch the one for the sub off while trolling.
if I went electric I would have probably 2 or 3 batteries, 1 for engine, 1 trolling motor, 1 stereo. (don't want to be stranded with dead battery)

The trolling plate would be nice so I don't have to worry about killing batteries, I would probably have 2 anyway so I can run the stereo while anchored and just swimming.

Opinions?

also if I was to go with the kicker, how to steer it? on my current boat I have a EZ-steer rod attaching my 2 outboards, but the new boats I am looking at (bayliner 175/185) have power steering. If the main engine is off how hard is it to steer?


Thanks in advance!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Trolling questions

I troll a 140HP Mercruiser I/O with a Troll-a-Matic plate and it has a couple of drawbacks, low speed diminished steering both forward and reverse, it takes some getting used to. It works well very well in nice conditons, but if the wind is up, the reduced thrust can make it difficult to maintain a straight course trolling. The thrust is going down and out to the sides, instead of straight back. I solo fish a lot and this isn't a big deal until I'm landing a fish,,, while also fighting the wind, waves and boat. When I take another person along it's not a problem as I can control the steering and throttle while they land the fish.

I have a 70# transom mount that works great for calm conditions or trolling down hill, but going up hill doesn't work too well as the TM doesn't have sufficient thrust to handle big waves and wind. A bowmount TM with auto-pilot steering would work better, but thats at least $1000 for a decent unit. (I have a foot controlled bowmount TM that works great for positioning, but a pain to troll with.) The down side to using an electric TM is you are limited by battery capacity. I can only troll about 4-5 hours on my 18'er before the batteries need charging. This would leave most people out of luck, but I have my electrical system configured so I can swap over the 12V/24V outlet and charge the batteries back up off the main engine's 100 amp alternator in about 3 hours.

Kicker? Not sure, wished I had one.... I have seen Ez-Steer systems for I/O's to kickers before. No idea on power steering, but my boat has a NFB (no feedback) helm which is very nice for trolling. Let go of the steering wheel while trolling and the boat maintains course,,, instead of prop torque turning the wheel and spinning the boat.

 

[impatico]

Re: Trolling questions

thanks for the info, hows the fuel economy when trolling with the i/o??

the only cons going that way is fuel and putting lots of hours on your boat

i was just looking at kickers and electro steers and i really like the pro 3 system on here, i can steer and set speed by remote

and i like the honda 8 and 9.9 kickers with twice the charging system of the others i checked out at 12 amps

but they are around 100 lbs which brings me to will a new bayliner 175/185 handle that kinda kicker weight? and can i plumb the fuel line up to the boats gas tank if i get mpi? is it an in tank fuel pump on those?

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Trolling questions

for a 17-18' boat just use the main engine to troll.

 

[bonz_d]

Re: Trolling questions

My question would be what method of trolling are you refering to? Like bass fishing, casting to spots and moving or flat line or planer boards were the rods are in holders? If the 1st method then a bow mount is prefered. If flat lining or pulling planer boards then a kicker is prefered by most.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Trolling questions

hows the fuel economy when trolling with the i/o??

Ayuh,.... I've got a 22' boat, 'n the 4.3LX/ Alpha 1....

I use drift socks, trim tabs, 'n my prop to control my speeds...

I can troll 'bout 18 hours on less than 12 gallons of gas....

 

[j_k_bisson]

Re: Trolling questions

I troll Lake Erie for Walleye's all summer long. I use a kicker, 10hp Honda 4 stroke (old BF100 CDI), they have the ability to charge your batteries why you troll. So not problems with power. I still have 2 bateries and they are separate by a perko switch. I run everything off on batery and the other is back up. But the charging is to both when running the big motor. I just switch the perko to both.

You may not want to use your main motor for trolling. The reason for this is you tend to gum/carbon up your plugs and ring when you idle for long periods of time under load. Not quite good for motor. I know others here will probably dispute this. But when i have my family on the water, everything I do is on the side of caution. Especially getting back to shore! Can't do that with a plugged up motor!

As to how to steer, this is a pic of the stern of my boat right now;



As you can see, I do not use the main to steer the kicker. Quite the opposite. I lock down the kicker so I am trolling in a straight line and adjust my path with the bigg motor. You have to troll with the wind/waves this way. I have found the fish don't care what way I troll. I also found that I get better bites with the style of trolling I do if I go with the waves. It gives the presentation a more naural movement in the water. The big motor is a pain to turn, but seeing I am only rotating the wheel by 1 turn max this set up works great.

If I where to recommend any attachments for your kicker, it would be the speed controlling devises. they work great and help adjusting you speed for trolling in a way you could never do with the main motor. Once you get it you will wonder what you where thinking before.

Hope this helps...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Trolling questions

You may not want to use your main motor for trolling. The reason for this is you tend to gum/carbon up your plugs and ring when you idle for long periods of time under load. Not quite good for motor. I know others here will probably dispute this.

Ayuh,... You have an Outboard, the OP has an I/O...

The I/O motor could care less if it's idlin' all day,... or not...

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Trolling questions

Since you're in Prince George you are most likely trolling in lakes, with maybe a trip or two to the coast. The electric will be of no value in the salt, but can work OK in the lakes, the quiet part of an electric is great. But the most versatile way to do it is with a small Kicker, it will work well for everything. If you plan for this to a be a fishing boat, then look at a something other than a Bayliner bow rider, but if its a family boat with just a little fishing thrown in, it will work. Any boat in that size range can handle the weight of a kicker, it’s not an issue.

There are many options for steering, from a cheap tiller handle extension to a complete auto pilot (TR1), so this isn't really a problem, just something that needs to be set up on the actual boat you decide to buy. A fishing boat will have a flat transom so a kicker can easily be mounted, most bow riders have curved transoms that require a little more work to mount one, but it can still be done.

 

[Home Cookin']

Re: Trolling questions

re; "I have found the fish don't care what way I troll."

that's interesting and why this "national" board sometimes needs to be regionalized. I don't doubt the guy, but for salt water fishing, direction relative to current is crucial, and wind is irrelevant to the fish (but big to the fisherman)

while the electric trolling motor's greatest advantage is its silent operation, the OP said he likes to listen to the stereo while trolling, so I discounted quietness as a factor.

 

[impatico]

Re: Trolling questions

Thanks for all the help guys!!

I only plan on fresh water at this point, but my brother really wants to hit the ocean at least once so it might be the case, but My boss owns a fishing lodge and I can just borrow one of his boats if I don't want to use mine.
Up here we just troll for rainbow and lake trout, no bass or walleye here, and I am not taking the boat into the river.
I am thinking I will try using the I/O first and see if I want a kicker. Not into the electric anymore, see if I can save some money.
$2300 kicker, $100 mount, $400 electro steer extra $3000 after tax I could spend that on gas, and maybe a downrigger!

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Trolling questions

Good call on the stereo thing HC, no need for the stealth presentation of an electric TM if the stereo is going.

My 140 used about 10 gallons of fuel last time out, 12 hours of trolling and 15-20 miles running up-down river. (Your mileage may vary )

Here's an idea. Drag a couple 5 gallon buckets and see how you like trolling off the main, the buckets will slow the boat. Tying the buckets off to the stern could get in the way of landing fish, tying off to the bow (port-bow, starboard-bow) could scratch up the gelcoat/paint, both work.

Something to consider, a kicker is a second means of propulsion. If the main dies you can limp back on the kicker. That can be a huge bonus, depends where you are at. The same can be said for an electric TM, and I have limped home a couple times on an electric. If all you have is the main engine, well,,, you're going to be paddling.

 

[impatico]

Re: Trolling questions

What size kicker would work best on a 175 Bayliner? on my 16' I have a 9.9 merc 2 stroke and it pushes the boat at just above idle. I plan on taking the kicker on and off quite a bit so don't want to go above 100-125 lbs something with a built in gas tank would be nice though so I don't have to plumb it in.

 

[impatico]

Re: Trolling questions

I want the Suzuki DF6 with 6 amp alternator and built in fuel tank, but I can't find a trollmaster pro 3 kit for it

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Trolling questions

Put the i / O in reverse & it steers straight as a bow mounted electric. It WILL GO slow as possible. Always put the prop facing the direction of travel. I troll backwards in the boxy Chaparral. Straight as on tracks. Try it.

Rich

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Trolling questions

All of this depends on how serious you want to be about fishing, and only you can answer that. The answers you get from me will be from the serious fishing side, not the “this may work during the few times you may try fishing” perspective.

If the Suzuki is a single cylinder model then you don't want to go that route, they tend to be loud and can shake terribly when compared to a 2 cylinder model. Almost any small outboard will push the boat just fine when trolling in lakes for trout, and you said you have a 9.9, so problem solved. You really won't be able to troll very well for trout with the I/O, they just don't go slow enough for lake fishing, yes you can add drift socks, buckets, troll backwards and other things to help slow it down, but using a kicker is far easier. Lake fishing (trolling) speeds are typically much slower than what may be done in the salt, so while I/O’s and big O/Bs may work in some situations out there, they don’t do well inland.

 

[impatico]

Re: Trolling questions

I am guessing around a 50/50 split between fishing and water sports. We do fish quite a bit, and do go out to lakes for fishing trips.

So with the amount of fishing we do it would be best to get a kicker, and not put that kinda hours on the I/O

thank you all for the help

OH! one last question, does the troll master pro 3 kit have everything you need, or is the steering mechanism separate?

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Trolling questions

yes you can add drift socks, buckets, troll backwards and other things to help slow it down, but using a kicker is far easier.

How so? Not being sarcastic, but really want to know as I've never run a kicker.

Besides the few drawbacks, I like how the trolling plate works on my I/O. I can crawl very slow with it and I'm usually up over idle a tad while trolling. I troll slooooow, running surface plugs that will dive if going too fast. The plate causes some loss of steering input, though I think that would be true with a kicker too since it's not providing much thrust. I've been in a couple situations where I wouldn't want to be running a kicker (I think) as I needed to change course quick or run fast a short distance. I've hung up expensive rigs in submerged cover before and I'm not sure a kicker would have been able to run back around and unsnag the rig, due to wind/waves. Wind howling through the canyons I fish can be unforgiving at times. I guess it really depends on where you fish and the conditions.

BTW, the plate I'm using is spring loaded, automatic, so you don't have to mess with it. Give the engine some throttle and it pops up out of the way. That makes it a pain in reverse though.

 

[fishrdan]

Re: Trolling questions

So with the amount of fishing we do it would be best to get a kicker, and not put that kinda hours on the I/O

I'm not sure I follow, for not putting hours an I/O. For the expense of installing a kicker, you could buy a LOT of gas. There isn't much to maintain on an I/O, hours wise, that you wouldn't normally do. You might have to do an extra oil change during the season, but that's not much. A lot of the expense of an I/O comes in the yearly costs of maintenance and the big 5 year one when the transom needs to be resealed. Though, you will have that expense anyway. I'm not knocking the decision to go with a kicker, but not sure I agree with limiting the hours on the I/O.

One pro and con about using an I/O for trolling, it needs to be in very good tune, so it idles like a Swiss watch. Sometimes a pain getting everything tuned perfect, but you get the added bonus of having a well running engine.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Trolling questions

Boat control is very important in almost every type of fishing and speed is one of the more critical factors, it can be very difficult to control your speed when trying to tame a V8. The difference in trolling at 1.2 MPH or 1.8MPH can mean the difference between a great day of fishing and going home with nothing. With a small motor these differences in speed are easy to achieve.

I would much rather put the hours on a small kicker that can be replaced in less than 10 minutes if needed and will run day after day for decades with almost no maintenance. I have never worn out a kicker motor, I have two 6HP Evinrudes from the late 60's one I've run since it was new, it spent the first 20 years of it's life in saltwater and in 40+ years it has had about $30.00 worth of replacement parts put on it. I don?t use it any more, it just sits on the rack, but it still runs fine.

Many times lake fishing puts very few hours on the main motor, a ten minute run and the lines go in the water, then you troll for ten hours, at the end of the day it's a ten minute run back the launch. I may do this several times a week for months at a time. I could put three or four hundred hours on the big motor and fight to control the boat speed, or put two hours on it and have complete control of the speed.