Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

[Capn Mike]

Everytime I read those posts about Doelfins, Stringrays, etc, I keep thinking maybe I should have one of those things. Everyone seems to agree they work, but in my search of previous posts I didn't run across this question: do hydrofoils do anything for a boat that already has trim tabs? Or, are they an inexpensive, and apparently effective, substitute?<br />I'm always looking for a way to improve performance, and the price is certainly right!

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

One benefit of the Foil is the increased hole shot and quicker plane, while having the Tabs gives you more control while on plane.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

You are right, they are inexpensive, and on most boats they are effective. I don't know anyone that has tried both at the same time, but like you said, the price is right. You may find that it is of great benefit, or maybe not. Why not try it?<br /><br />You may want to re-adjust your trim tabs also, to find a optimun combination so that the two work well together.<br /><br />Let us know how it works out.

 

[Brew]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

After reading Capn' Mike's post acknowledging the benefits of hydrofoils, I started wondering why outboards aren't manufactured with the a larger foil.<br /><br />Is it due to a loss of some speed at WOT? Just curious.<br /><br />Cheers.

 

[ob]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Brew, May be due to the fact that too wide of cavitation plate of factory thickness would be susceptible to fracturing or maybe just not needed for every application.Just a guess.In the right situation,if installed improperly the add on fins could act like a large water grabbing wing and lead to control problems.

 

[dingbat]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Well guy,<br />I've had both and the tabs have it all over the fins. I can bury the front of the boat with the tabs and the fin couldn't come close to adding that much lift. Also with the tabs you can adjust the trim to get your hull in the best planing position and then you can trim the motor for the best efficiency while running. The fin is always a compromise between planing performance and engine performance. The fin is a fairly good cheap solution for modest performance gains, but to do it right you need tabs.

 

[sloopy]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

but.... trim tabs do more to the boar in terms of good then hydro "fulls"

 

[Walker]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

If you ever fish shallow flats then you will learn that foils or fins or whatever you want to call them are worth their weight in gold. Trim tabs don't get to their full potential until you get the boat moving fast enough for the water to creat upward force on the tabs. A foil on the motor gets some of its initial lift from the prop wash from the moment you gas it.

 

[Capn Mike]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

OK. It's settled then. I'll get a set and try them and let you know. The posts on my search seem to suggest that some brands work better than others. I have a 200 hp Johnson on a 24' Striper. Any recommendations?<br />And....the experiment has to wait a couple of months. I have the boat out of the water pending a bottom paint job. But I'll be back in the water by mid-Feb for early salmon season.

 

[steelespike]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

I think the foils are great Ive had them on a 120 hp 18ft IO and a 15ft 50 hp outboard.<br />They worked great.<br />Keep in mind they suck up a little top speed<br />and if you hit something with it(unlikely) it could damage your cavitation plate or worse.

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Howdy Capn Mike... My two cents worth... I have tabs and a foil on a 16' flats skiff and it plains real fast though I did loose 2 MPH top end with the foil but still would not be without it...<br /><br />On a boat of your size and horsepower you might consider a foil that is made of stainless of aluminum because the plastic models will flex a bit...<br /><br />This one's from www.bobsmachine.com click on "porta brackets"<br />

 

[93bronco]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

has any one used this one? looks like prop clearance could be an issue, i was thinking of the cobra pro or the sport se 300. any thoughts. only thing that worries me is cavitation plate breakage. the cost of new or used lower unit mite not be worth the risk.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Capn Mike<br />If you already have hydrolic trim tabs I think a hydro foil is just a waist of money. Only way I can think of where you might want both is if your trim tabs are fixed and not adjustable or you trim tabs are too small.<br />If you have neither then the hydrofoils are cheaper and quicker to install, but also not near as efective as hydrolic trim tabs. Both will usually cost you a little top speed and fuel mileage as they bring up the stearn and lower the bow. This means have more wetted surface and more drag but just a very small amount.<br />The hydrolic trim tabs allow you to trim your boat first then trim your motor for best speed and mileage. They also let you trim your boat to run flat even in a strong cross wind. My boat will always lean into the wind. Since the windword side is down I get more spray on that side and ofcourse the wind blows that spray on the back of the boat. With the hydrolic trim tabs I trim it flat so it rides better, I get less spray on the up wind side and also the gunnels on up wind side is higher so boat passergers and gear stay a lot dryer.<br />One time where hydrolic trim tabs will save you fuel. My boat planes at about 20 MPH without the tabs but will stay on plane down to 9 MPH with the tabs. When it is rough off shore I can not do 20 Mph to get on plane and be safe so end up plowing and useing lots of fuel and also not a good way the hit the waves. With the trim tabs I can slow down but stay on plane and save fuel while also haveing a much better and safer ride.

 

[djandjas]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

snapperbait: You said the plastic ones can flex a bit. I have just had a set of hard plastic hydrofoils fitted and I now plane so much quicker, they seem great. However, I have noticed that now at high speed the boat will occasional dig sharply to one side, and not always the same side. I thought maybe it was just when I was in the boat by myself but it has done it with others in the boat and today when by myself it dig to port (I sit and steer on starboard). Could they be flexing like you suggest??? <br /><br />(It is a Velero Dart 4.4 mts, with a 1972 Evinrude 125 Hp. )

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Jas.. Some plastic foils do flex more than others depending on the type of plastic and their construction... I run a DoelFin and it flexes like crazy...<br /><br />My reasoning behind advising Capn Mike to use a metal foil was due to the size of his boat and motor combination... I belive the metal foil would create more lift with no flex...<br /><br />A hydrofoils job is to create lift in the stern of the boat so the more weight it lifts the more plastic will flex upwards... The flex is not such a bad thing because it offers a cushion effect kind of like a shock absorber which can help a boat have a smoother ride in choppy conditions... I know because I run in some BAD conditions at times....<br /><br />The foil could be the cause of your problem... Not all boats perform well with them... I saw a post not too long ago where a fella had the same problem as you but he did not have a foil... He later reported back that he installed a foil and his problem was solved... I put one on for my Dad on his bass boat... Upon his return from his first trip out with the new foil his remark was "Take that #$*% thing off my boat right now"... That foil now is on my boat and I love it... So there ya go..

 

[Walker]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Jas, I believe you now are riding with the bow too far down. You need to trim out just a little more.

 

[Capn Mike]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Thanks everyone for your input. <br />The reason I would consider hydrofoils on a boat already equipped with trim tabs is I would hope to provide a bigger/quicker lift on take off; from the posts here, it seems as though the hydrofoils may provide a quicker "pop-up."<br />I suspect the same benefits might be provided with larger tabs, but, of course, the hydrofoil is much less costly. I haven't noticed that my speed to plane is any greater with or without tabs, but it also depends on the wind, the speed of the river current and so on.<br />Of course, tabs are very useful while running: Boatist, you're right, especially when there's a chop and I want to maintain plane while keeping the bow down some.<br />Snapper, that's an interesting site you forwarded: so much so, I had to look up some of their other products. I think "Go Fast" is a bigger deal in Florida than it is here....

 

[Tabman II]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Capn Mike,<br /><br />I am Thomas and work for Bennett Marine in the Client Service department.<br /><br />I not real sure, but I believe you are trying to improve your hole shot. Is this true or not? If so, please let me what size trim tab you currently have installed. A single 200hp, 24' vessel falls in the 24 x 9 trim tab range, which shouldn't have any trouble bring your vessel to plane quickly. From your post it sounds like they are smaller than this or you have some other dilemma not mentioned so far. Please let me with your findings here or you can contact at trimtabs@earthlink.net. <br /><br />I look forward to your quick reply.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />MJ Thomas<br />Bennett Marine, Inc.<br />Client Service

 

[Waterbugtoo]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

I really wish they would ban those worthless things. Nothing worse than having to dodge those razor sharp fins when wrestling with a lower unit! Props are bad enough. Bleeding and/or stitches automatically adds extra charges when we replace your impeller or other such things!<br /><br />

 

[Capn Mike]

Re: Trim tabs AND hydrofoils?

Tabman, thanks for your note! I will contact you directly, and we can chat.