Trim not working

j1r11

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Jul 21, 2010
Messages
135
I have a 2005 bayliner 205 with a mercruiser 5.0 alpaha one gen. 2. Recently the trim was working intermittently now today it does not move. I can hear a loud click when i hit the button, but the engine does not move. Any ideas?
 

j1r11

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
135
Re: Trim not working

Thanks. It shows 8 possible problems it could be, so i geuss i got my work cut out. I am hoping it just is a corroded connection. Wierd this is 2 of the possibilities have to do with the "Armature Commutator" , which is not shown in wiring diagram or the trim/pump diagram and i have no idea where it is or what it looks like.
 

Bondo

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70,998
Re: Trim not working

Thanks. It shows 8 possible problems it could be, so i geuss i got my work cut out. I am hoping it just is a corroded connection. Wierd this is 2 of the possibilities have to do with the "Armature Commutator" , which is not shown in wiring diagram or the trim/pump diagram and i have no idea where it is or what it looks like.

Ayuh,... It's the heart/ bowels of the electric motor doin' the pumpin'...
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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Messages
27,468
Re: Trim not working

The commutator is on the end of the armature assembly. It's what the brushes run on to allow power to flow through the armature windings... Being a DC motor is needs a commutator as opposed to slip-rings for an AC motor or alternator.

This is a commutator...

CommutatorA00228A.jpg
 

j1r11

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Messages
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Re: Trim not working

The commutator is on the end of the armature assembly. It's what the brushes run on to allow power to flow through the armature windings... Being a DC motor is needs a commutator as opposed to slip-rings for an AC motor or alternator.

This is a commutator...

CommutatorA00228A.jpg

Thanks for that pic. I will start the trouble shooting tomorrow.
 

j1r11

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Re: Trim not working

After some testing today i found--
1) no fuses were popped
2) all connections were clean and tight
3) i had 12V the red stage 5 terminal
4) i had no power at all on the stage 2,3 or 4 terminal
5) i pulled apart my armature assembly and did not see anything suspect anywhere, just a tiny bit of black dust on the commutator magnets. No rust anywhere. It did have grease on the very top of the shaft.
6) I got the trim to work once and now sometimes i get clicks up/down, sometimes no clicks.

Sounding like bad Solenoids?

I still have to test the wiring harness yet.
 

j1r11

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
135
Re: Trim not working

Magnets??? do you mean brushes?

There was nothing that looked like brushes. There was 2 sm. triangular pieces that were on springs. The diagram shows them as brushes, but they are solid, and i thought they looked like magnets.
 

achris

More fish than mountain goat
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May 19, 2004
Messages
27,468
Re: Trim not working

There was nothing that looked like brushes. There was 2 sm. triangular pieces that were on springs. The diagram shows them as brushes, but they are solid, and i thought they looked like magnets.

The diagram is right... There are brushes.. not like a broom type brush :facepalm:...
 

Bondo

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Messages
70,998
Re: Trim not working

After some testing today i found--
1) no fuses were popped
2) all connections were clean and tight
3) i had 12V the red stage 5 terminal
4) i had no power at all on the stage 2,3 or 4 terminal
5) i pulled apart my armature assembly and did not see anything suspect anywhere, just a tiny bit of black dust on the commutator magnets. No rust anywhere. It did have grease on the very top of the shaft.
6) I got the trim to work once and now sometimes i get clicks up/down, sometimes no clicks.

Sounding like bad Solenoids?

I still have to test the wiring harness yet.

Ayuh,... Not that it's Wrong, but that's completely Backwards from the way I'd diagnose it...
 

riskibusiness

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Nov 27, 2011
Messages
129
Re: Trim not working

Not to be Mr. obvious here but have you checked it while its running. You might have a weak battery.
 

j1r11

Petty Officer 2nd Class
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Messages
135
Re: Trim not working

Not to be Mr. obvious here but have you checked it while its running. You might have a weak battery.

I have 12.5v going to the solenoid, also the battery measures 12.5V. I have also tried it with my spare battery.
 

j1r11

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Messages
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Re: Trim not working

The diagram is right... There are brushes.. not like a broom type brush :facepalm:...

They or there? What i am describing is the brushes? With a part name as "brushes" one would think that it would resemble such, but i guess i am just silly:rolleyes:
 

j1r11

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Messages
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Re: Trim not working

Ayuh,... Not that it's Wrong, but that's completely Backwards from the way I'd diagnose it...

Just going in order of the manual diagnoisis steps. The wiring harness check is dead last #8 step.
 

stonyloam

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5,827
Re: Trim not working

They or there? What i am describing is the brushes? With a part name as "brushes" one would think that it would resemble such, but i guess i am just silly:rolleyes:

Not at all. When electric motors were first developed they used bundles of copper wire (brushes) for contacts, which were later replaced with graphite blocks.
 

stonyloam

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5,827
Re: Trim not working

One other thing, to go up, use the trailer button, not the trim button, because if it is already up it may be above the trim limit.
 

picklenjim

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
528
Re: Trim not working

Jump a piece of wire between the large red(HOT)wire on the solenoid to the large blue (UP) wire coming out of the motor to the solenoid. Then jump the wire between the large red(HOT) wire and the large green (DOWN) wire on the other solenoid. This should verify if the motor is working properly. Usually when you hear the loud click but the motor doesn't run it's the solenoid operating but not making contact inside to connect the 2 large terminals. VERY COMMON.
 

j1r11

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
135
Re: Trim not working

One other thing, to go up, use the trailer button, not the trim button, because if it is already up it may be above the trim limit.

I am not sure if i have a "trailer" button. I only have a up/down button, but i noticed that i can push my up in a little, then if i press it harder it will go in twice as far as the down button.
 

picklenjim

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 11, 2009
Messages
528
Re: Trim not working

Another test is to check the voltage at the small blue wire on the solenoid as someone holds the trim up switch on. Then check it as they hold the trailer switch on. Then go to the small green wire on the other solenoid and check voltage as someone holds the trim down switch on. Should have 12 volts as they hit the switches.If you have voltage than the solenoid is bad unless the large wire connections are dirty and not making contact. Disassembling the motor is the last place you would go.
 
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