Trim issues

fun4life

Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
7
Ive got a 1991 force 90 hp engine. When i got the engine the trim/tilt motor worked but the pistons would not move. I found the middle (minor adjustment piston im guessing) piston cover hold down bolts broken at the bottom making it go cockeyed. I took out the broken bolts and installed new bolts. When the cover was bolted on straight the piston started to move again which made the main lift piston work on the right side of the engine. The motor lifts fine now but it sinks down almost as fast as it goes up. I took apart the pump and cleaned it and did not find any o-rings ripped. The one way valves appear to be ok. What else can cause it to leak down so fast?

Thanks in advance for any help
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: Trim issues

Without a picture of you system the following info may not apply to you. There are several types. This info is for the type commonly used on the 1991 90HP motors.

If you've checked all the "O" rings on the pistons, then it may be the seals inside the check valve. Below is a picture of the piece inside the check valve and seals. Red one is new, black one is the original and obviously bad. The seal goes on the nipple on the hex shaped piece.
check valve3.JPG

This is a view of the whole check valve disassembled. The black piece on the right is the shuttle valve and not part of the check valve itself.
check valve1.JPG

Below is a view of the valve body with the disassembled check valves as a reference to see if this is the type of valve body that you have.

trim tilt.jpg
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Trim issues

Almost exactly as pnwboat has pictured. The only difference is that your check valves unscrew with an allen wrench and his are held in with a retaining clip. Yours are slightly larger to accomodate the allen key. Do not take apart gear plate. It will be difficult to get pressure setting correct and tested if you do. So just leave it alone - exactly as pnwboat has pictured.

the outer black orings are standard Buna material in sizes 011, 012, and 015. If your hydraulics shop has them in stock, ask for the two 015 orings in hardness 90. This is also a primary failure point of the chinese valve body. They substituted a metric size oring and used a larger seal made of softer material. About 1/3 of the chinese VB will drip from this seal even though they are brand new. Replace with a BN90 oring of correct size to fix the chinese drip problem.

The inner, red in picture, oring is the one that causes bleed down. It can be found in a Briggs & Stratton carberator rebuild kit. Gently clean the poppet with small wire brush. Wash other parts in acetone or lacq. thinner to remove oil film. apply very small drop of locktite around the steel seat (cap). after assembly let dry with cap facing down so that gravity will draw locktite residue away from spring. Do not hone center fluid channel. flush with mineral spirits or blow clean with air. apply thin film of oil to all parts prior to assembly. Engine assembly oil works well. The orings on check valves need to be lubricated so that they do not catch and tear.
 

fun4life

Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
7
Re: Trim issues

Thanks for the replies guys, much appreciated. I pulled both valves apart and replaced the seals but its still leaking down just as fast. The only thing im seein is the black thing inbetween the 2 valves does not slide freely in the bore. Is that normal? The o-ring seems ok and without the o-ring it goes thru freely. I havent pulled apart the piston in the center of the engine yet, is it possible for that to cause leak down?

Thanks again guys.
 

hundee r1

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Mar 24, 2010
Messages
158
Re: Trim issues

Have u rebuilt the main tilt cylinder? If not, buy a kit of Ritt on eBay and rebuild both the trim and tilt cylinders.
 

fun4life

Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
7
Re: Trim issues

Yes i did, it had the only ripped seal ive came across in the system but still made little difference in how fast the motor drops.
 

RRitt

Captain
Joined
Mar 30, 2006
Messages
3,319
Re: Trim issues

the oring on valve body slider is critical part. won't work without it. it does not slide freely but does slide easily.

raise engine and block into place. bump trim switch down to relieve pressure and remove lower tube from tilt cylinder. insert #104 oring and 3/8-24 threaded plug. does not need to be torqued, just seated, due to #104 oring. manually lift engine and remove blocks. engine should not drift down. It is does then you probably have a bad bypass valve in tilt piston. Usually caused by water. you need to replace piston but can, as an emergency fix, have the offending bypass valve threaded and plugged.
 

fun4life

Cadet
Joined
Jul 3, 2013
Messages
7
Re: Trim issues

The valve body slider actually sticks enough that i have to use force to move it bt only at certain points in the valve body, mainly near the ends. I havent got a chance to plug off the main cylinder yet but hopefully this week.
 
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