Transom replacement method? Help

[barney35226]

Hi,<br />Rotten transom on 15.5 ft. Fabulgass/~1975/115 evinrude with splashwell. The transom is rotten all the way up to its top corners. This forum has been great educating me on transom repair. Here is my dilemma. Someone enlighten me please. The simplest method of replacing transom seems to open it up by cutting into the splashwell and replace transom from inside, then rebuild the splashwell. But if I find my stringers to be rotten once I'm in, then I'll need to remove cap and deck to replace them, right? Then my damage to my splashwell would be in vain; I'll have to repair the splashwell as well as replace the deck, right? If I go ahead and remove the cap, can the splashwell be removed separately from the deck, then allowing the same access to transom without ripping into the splashwell? Any advise welcome.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Pull the entire upper deck. It is easy on those old boats, and you are maintaining the structural integrity. Do not think about how easy or difficult it is to do the repair, think about how strong and SAFE the boat is when the repair is complete. Having something come apart on you at speed in the water is no joke, and if that happens, you'll wish you spent the extra time and did it right. Good luck...

 

[boatin]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Sounds like either way you go, rebuilding the splashwell is the least of your problems. From your description of the transom I can almost guarantee there is more rotten wood under the deck. Was the boat sitting outside? How long? Docked in the water? The last boat that I rebuilt [and I do mean LAST !! ] was a learning experence.Replaced transom by cutting out the back half of the deck where the built in gas tank sits. Basically cut the boat in half except for the hull. Putting it back together and making it look good was the easy part. The hard part is the preparation and the glassing itself. In hindsight I probably should have taken the top off.<br /> Good luck

 

[barney35226]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

This boat has been stored dry in a basement for 12 years and not run - dry rot. How low are the stringers relative to the cap? Can they be repaired with only the cap removed? Also, shouldn't I get an idea of any deck rot by standing on it? Since the boat is at my dad's house, I haven't had the chance to check these things out. Thanks.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Standing on the deck should give you an indication of stringer rot underneath and rot in the floor. You should be OK if the floor is solid.<br /><br />Give some thought to pulling the cap anyway so you can see what is there. It is not really a big job to pull it on a boat as small as yours. <br /><br />I have a 23'er and had the transom redone a couple of years ago. They cut the deck in the back to get access and did a great job however now you can clearly see where the cuts were made.

 

[BillP]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

I cut the splash wells out of two 60s vintage boats for transom replacements (stringers and floors too). It took a casual 1/2 hr to cut a well out and about double that to fit and glass back in. I used a sabre saw to do the cut. Taking the deck off is way more work and would not have made it any easier to do the transom, stringers or floor. Also, when the deck stays on it keeps the hull plumb...which means you have to make braces, etc. to keep the hull true when the deck is off.

 

[airman]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

To find the rot, take a small hammer and tap the suspect areas. A sharp ring indicates good wood and a dull thud will show the rotten areas. Find all the rot before you start. I replaced the transom in my 21' Glasply (cuddy cabin with I/O) and I wouldn't do it again. I would have been money ahead to have put in 1000hrs of evenings and weekends at McD's and bought a new hull with the proceeds. I love the boat now but what a ton of work!

 

[barney35226]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Removed the rub rail today. The cap and hull are pretty well sealed together (very tightly) at the seam, with rivets every 12 inches or so. The screws for the rubrail thread into this seam. My only concern with removing the cap is being able to re-establish this seam. Other posts have recommended using some glue called 5200 in addition to rivets or fender clamps, whatever those are. Just how important is this junction to the integrity of the boat's structure, and should I be able to restore it to its current state, which seems pretty solid? Thanks

 

[boat doc]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

is it a shoebox fit, or a but fit? if there are rivots, I would guess shoe box, those are easy to put back together.... I have done countless shoeboxes. I like going back together with washers and thrubolts instead of rivots. Rivots tend to break loose after a while. Also I would use some 5200 to seal the two parts back together, but you may never get it back apart. I will probably catch some flack on this suggestion because of safety, but I did this on an old fishing boat I owned that had to have the transom redone, and would never do this to somone else, I was in a hurry.<br /><br />I managed to dig out the rot in the transom, leaving the glass on the inside and out. I took a ton of sawdust, and milled fibers, and mixed them with resin, and pured that into the cavity. I then welded up some stainless to form a cap (so to speek) to fit from the top (so there was a big plate of stainless inside and out) I drilled new holes to mount the engine. since then, a buddy of mine has taken over the boat, and that repair still exist without problems today. If course this is a small boat with a small engine, and is used basically for a stump jumper.<br /><br />That is just a story I thought I would share, I would not recomend this procedure though.

 

[barney35226]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

I believe its a but fit (flanges from hull and cap are bonded together and riveted every 12 inches or so). The rubrail screws thread into the joint between the hull and cap. The bond is pretty solid. After removing the rivets, I'll saw between the flanges to break the bond. Hence my apprehension. Sawing out the splashwell seems a simpler alternative. BillP says I can replace stringers that way if necessary.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Go to Project boats and do a search for my project, Project Skanky Beast, where I seperated the deck from the hull of a 16.5 foot tri-hull, replaced transom, stringers, floor, heavily modified the uper deck and converted it into a center console. My upper deck was a butt joint that was stapled every inch all the way around, and the rubrail was screwed above and below the seam. When I put it back together I drilled and rivited the seam, sealed with marine sealant, and used three times as many screws to attach the rubrail, for a stronger joint. Trust me, it goes back together. I used clamps to hold the seam as I drilled and rivited. You end up with a more stronger structure that cutting out the splashwell and glassing it back in, because glassing it back in, even with epoxy, creates secondary bonds that will never be as strong as the original. You want to create as few secondary bonds as possible when rebuilding a boat, even if that means taking the less lazy route. Also, you won't have a frankenstein joint in the splashwell.

 

[BillP]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

More 02 of mine...I see no reason to remove the deck for stringer or transom replacements. Removing old stiff (and obsolete)rubrails is usually distructive and causes more problems. If you have a desire to increase the work and frustration load then go for it (in my humble opinion). <br /><br />If you are looking to make the deck joint stronger...just glassing from the underside will take care of it. Sure, you can remove the deck but why? Access to this area is usually very easy on old glass boats. Use polyester resin and wipe the contact area by sanding and flooding styrene on it first...that will take care of prepping the surface for any "secondary" bonding problems. Styrene will actually glue polyester together but that isn't it's intent. Acetone is no substitute here and is a cleaning agent only. <br /><br />Here's how I've done deck joints without removing the deck...Cut 18oz woven roven in to 6'x12" rectangles. The small size make the job managable in the confined space. Saturate these with thickened resin (cabosil type)while they lay flat on a piece of wax paper...I stack them 4-6. Once saturated apply to joint by hand and smooth down. The thickened resin will not sag or run and makes forming the glass over screws and bumps very easy. Then again, using only thickened epoxy putty will make it plenty strong too but prepping is harder. Smearing 5200 on the deck joint would probably work too (you WON'T be able to remove the 5200)<br /><br />The "frankenstein" joint is not an issue unless you are trying to keep the original finish and gelcote. Gelcote matching is an art and also the color will show different with age. The wells actually go back in very easy and lining them up is not a problem...one side at a time. I spot glued them to hold before glassing. I filled the saw cut line and sanded down to a smooth finish. Once painted you couldn't see it. If you don't have the skill to make this joint invisible you probably don't want to start replacing transoms or removing decks either. <br /><br />There are all kinds of ways to do these projects and to each his own...but removing the deck is nothing but a pain in the axx and adds work plus cost. I've done the deck removal thing on a 60s 16'r and it was off the scale compared to well removal. <br /><br />Jason...NOT to step on your toes but suggesting that cutting the well out is not as strong because of "secondary" bonding is only a correct statement if one doesn't know how to glass properly. Next time you tour a high end (or low end)boat factory watch them "secondary" bond the deck to the hull. Since the very beginning of glass boats nearly evey new boat off the production line has "secondary" bonding for structure in one way or another. It isn't an issue if done right

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

I had no choice but to remove my deck as it was an open bow and I would not have been able to do the front 1/3rd of the boat with the deck in place as the entire bow section was one molding. It was not on my list of fun things to do, but once it was off, it was dramatically easier to do the other work. It is just being made to seem harder than it actually is. My deck was a lot heavier than his is, and I got it off and back on with my neighbor and his wife. His wife. I need not say more on THAT. As far as secondary bonds go, yeah there are plenty in a boat, but why make more. I say he can do it any way he wants to, but the PROPER way to rebuild a transom is to remove the deck, unless the boat is too large to make it feasible. <br /><br />In the end, it is his boat, and he asked for opinions from people who have been there, done that, and have the resin stained T-shirt. Lets just hope that whatever way he chooses to do it, it works out and doesn't leave him with a ruined boat or worse....

 

[BillP]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

jasonj,<br /><br />Ok, I'm curious and will ask again. Beside the obvious access issues where you MUST cut the deck off to do the work...exactly what does removing the deck do to make transom, stringer and floor replacement "PROPER"? Please explain in specific detail. Additional descriptions of problems you had on transom, stringer and floor installations that you didn't pull the deck off would make it perfectly clear. Fabuglass guy asked questions and probably should know these reasons so he can make an educated decision on his boat project. <br /><br />By the way, I've "been there, done that" and have "resin stained tee shirts" too...about 40 yrs worth.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

Oh yay, a pee-ing contest, for distance AND accuracy. <br /><br />Pulling the deck makes it proper depending on what you are hoping to accomplish with the boat. If it is a classic and you are trying to restore it to original condition, just about the last thing you want to do is start hacking things apart. If it is just a beater boat that you could care less about how it looks, then hack away.<br /><br />Pulling the deck makes it easier because now you have unrestricted access to everything. This does not take rocket science. If you are going to put yourself through the misery of grinding and itching and glassing, why make things harder by having to be all bent over at wierd angles trying to glass in a new transom with the rear portion of the deck in the way. When things are uncomfortable, you are tempted to take shortcuts, which hacking out the splashwell is a shortcut. I am not trying to bag on that technique, but when I was researching the best ways to go about my project, all the shops and pros I talked to said that anything less than pulling the deck is taking shortcuts. <br /> <br />On a 15 foot closed bow boat, the deck is not going to be very heavy or difficult to remove. Once off, he can lay in a nice strong transom, and when he rejoins the deck, he can improve upon the joint, making it stronger.<br /><br />In conclusion: Why is removing the deck proper? Because you end up with a truly proffesional result, and not a Jethro backyard hackjob. A skilled glasser can hack a splashwell out and glass it back in and you would never tell the difference, but 98 percent of the people who are coming to this board are not pros, and an ametuer will end up with a nasty frankenstein joint. Like I said before, he can do it any way he wants, and hopefully it works out for him, but you will never see me doing anything less than what my research tells me is the best. I may not have forty years of experience, but the experience I do have is based on solid, tried and true, proper technique. The end.

 

[BillP]

Re: Transom replacement method? Help

All I will say is...Banging around professional boat shops that do it for a living would help anyone clarify the "proper" way to do things. It will contradict bogus info posted here.