Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

[12Footer]

I started this as a reply to another thread, but realized it would derail it. And it, too, is far too important to be derailed.<br /><br />But I just wanted to say that it adresses a symptom of a much larger problem. It is happening right here in the states too. The only word I can come up with that comes close to decribing it is "indoctrination".<br /><br />I present evidence of this trend ,with a book called, The Rainbow Fish. This is a pre-school level story, with a 1st-3rd grade level reading/comprehension study, as used by teachers in American schools.<br /><br />This book introduces our young children to the principles of socialism, lifting it up as a model of society ,by "making all the fish happy".<br />By claiming to'teach' the concept of sharing ("sharing makes everyone happy"), they blew it. Some of us adults "Got the message" too, and did not like it.<br /><br />If you have young children or grandchildren, I strongly advise you to read this book. This book is a simple read, and as such, it must've presented dificulty when being written, in shrowding the underlying message, while still being clear enough for a child to understand. This is where indoctrination is first visable in any organised attempt...Our young children's curriculum! This is allways true of indoctrination. "How do we grab the hearts of these kids, while not setting-off the parental alarms?"<br /><br />I additionally evidence that with our known history, and the "Hitler Youth".<br /><br />I called-attention to this on another forum, and got soundly stomped-on by the largely-socialist memebership. So I execpt it to be defended by some of you here. Just know ahead of time--I am not looking for an up-or-down vote on this book, or it's "message". <br />I've allready pulled it from my grandchild's book box, and ceremoniously tossed it.

 

[rolmops]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

The thought of sharing and because of it becoming a happier person is very biblical.It really is not a "communist" ideology.By denying a child the freedom of choice through limiting the scope of his freedom of information, you are imposing your own indoctrination,just because you like it better that way.<br />In other words,you are guilty of committing the very act that you accuse the writer of this book of.

 

[Tinkerer]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

1. Any book about fishing can't be bad. <br /><br />2. What's the difference between education and indcoctrination? <br /><br />Indoctrination is always a negative that the speaker doesn't agree with. Education is a positive that the speaker agrees with or is neutral about.<br /><br />American education was capitalist indoctrination to the communist USSR, and vice versa.<br /><br />Catholic education was indoctrination of the worst kind when I was a kid attending Catholic schools in the '50's and '60's according to non-Catholics. And also subsequently according to me and the various generations of non-Catholics the system produced by trying to indocrinate us.<br /><br />Islamic schools are indoctrinating innocent minds according to some in the West, and some of the noisiest critics are Christians who want creationism taught in government schools to counteract the indoctrination of the foolish scientists. Guess what some Muslims are saying about Western education in general and Christian schools in particular?<br /><br />3. The biggest threat to children and society is the pencil box. As long as there are red pencils in them kids will be drawn by this primitive colour which softens them up for the red flag of communism. It's no coincidence that children in communist countries use red pencils to colour in their flags. We need guards at the door of every primary school to ensure that no red pencils get through.

 

[neumanns]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

I guess maybe I missed the point, or maybe somtimes a book is just that...A Book.<br /><br />This does raise a question though, Could you tell me what books are on the approved list in the childs book box and why?<br /><br />Please don't read more into my post than is there. Just a couple example's would be nice though so maybe I could better understand your point.

 

[dogsdad]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Sharing of your own free will is a good thing. That is biblical. Being forced to share by government policy and legislation is another thing altogether. It is marxism and it is hideously evil.<br /><br />Leave it to a marxist to mix a bit of a lie with the truth.

 

[12Footer]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Neumanns, nothing read-into your reply at all.<br />A list? I haven't seen one, but i'll bet there IS one. It might be worth researching. As for the book, my grandaughter, Chloe, had this book. I vaguely remembered Luara Ingram disgussing the book on her radio show, so I read it myself.<br />I could not believe my eyes!<br /><br />I posted an excerpt from the book, but thought better of that, due to ethics and copyright infringement questions.<br /> Click here to read an excerpt form "The Rainbow Fish". <br />-------------------------------------------------------<br />The lesson of sharing is a good one. But this book teaches that acceptance should be directly in preportion to one's generosity. And it's not nice to have more than anyone else. Especially, if you do not distrbute the excess. <br />"Nobody will,nor should play with you if you do not share".

 

[12Footer]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Originally posted by dogsdad:<br /> Sharing of your own free will is a good thing. That is biblical. Being forced to share by government policy and legislation is another thing altogether. It is marxism and it is hideously evil.<br /><br />Leave it to a marxist to mix a bit of a lie with the truth.

Exactly, Dogsdad.

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Instead of throwing out the book, perhaps you should let the child read it, then discuss it. That way you can teach the child to not only just read a book, but also think about the hidden messages.<br /><br />I always have my son question everything he reads or hears on the TV. I try to teach him to think for himself, rather than just mindlessly follow what the media sources say.<br /><br />The adult will have a much more influence over a child than a book.<br /><br />Ken

 

[snapperbait]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Right on, KIZ..

 

[McGR]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Jeez... Lighten up, it's just a dumb kid's book. I read this book to my kids several years back and didn't think twice about it. The book's purpose is just to convey the concept of sharing to young children - something very young children have difficulties with. Do you really think the author was out to introduce children to a political ideology? I doubt it...

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Boy we sure do live in a paranoid society. <br /><br />We complain about our kids not having any morals, yet when we read a childrens book about selfishness and sharing it must be a plot by liberals. <br /><br />I agree with McGR no harm no foul, the book is geared toward preschoolers who you want to teach about sharing. Otherwise you get 15 brats all screaming "MINE" <br /><br />12footer I say this as a friend, relax consider the audience that is being addressed then decide whether it's worth making a fuss over.<br /><br />You want an example of indoctrination. Just look at the last week. It was Earth Day on friday and all they were teaching was how evil corporations were polluting the earth. Or when my step-daughter was in school they never taught her what was "normal" behavior in wildlife. We were camping up at the Delaware Water Gap and had a nocturnal visit by Mister Skunk and Mister Raccoon. The school had her so scared by all the rabies teachings they never differentiated between a healthy raccoon and an infected one. She thought ALL raccons were rabid. got her so upset that she threw up. That's indoctrination. What your complaining about is a kids book that's trying to explain friendship to kids that have no idea what it takes to be a friend. <br />Lighten up.

 

[mattttt25]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

"Boy we sure do live in a paranoid society."<br /><br />yup. when i checked out the link, i realized my daughter has the book and i've read it to her several times. she likes the colorful pictures and the "fisheees".<br /><br />maybe i'm stupid or ignorant, although i've always considered myself pretty damn smart. my high school and college agreed. hidden socialist agenda? give me a break.<br /><br />fish doesn't share, no one wants to be her friend. fish shares, has friends, feels good. lesson- you should share. if i'm supposed to deny this teaching to my daughter, it's going to be a long, difficult parenthood for me.

 

[ED21]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

I remember reading it to my kid many years ago & my thought was socialist BS.<br />But it's just a kid's book soon to join all the rest on the shelf.<br />As I recall I did have a discussion with her about the message.

 

[NYMINUTE]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Missed that one, but then I missed alot of them. Isn't it the teachers job to be selective on books. Oh! right, they are paid to teach! Mmmmm!

 

[kenimpzoom]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

I remember sharing being hammered into me when I was a kid and I am no commie, not even a liberal.<br /><br />My 2 yr old wont share anything. I hope she learns to share else no one will like her.<br /><br />She has a video that she watches that has a kid who got a new sled. He wont let anyone ride it, he only wants others to push him around on it. Guess what, his friends get pretty bored pushing him around, so they leave.<br /><br />What is wrong about this message. It teached sharing with your friends is good. It doesnt teach sharing should be forced by the government. Does the king fish tell the little fish he has to share?<br /><br />Ken

 

[12Footer]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> Instead of throwing out the book, perhaps you should let the child read it, then discuss it. That way you can teach the child to not only just read a book, but also think about the hidden messages.<br /><br />I always have my son question everything he reads or hears on the TV. I try to teach him to think for himself, rather than just mindlessly follow what the media sources say.<br /><br />The adult will have a much more influence over a child than a book.<br /><br />Ken

Ken, kudos on the love and attention you are showing your child! This is precisely what I was asking every parent to do.<br />Somehow, this messenger is being shot again (not by you , Ken,but .<br /><br />I'm seeing the same misunderstanding I got from the other web site, which is predominantly socialist, at least in the room I posted this in!<br /> <br />Please, allow me to TRY to clarify this subject;<br /><br />This book, as is taught in schools, teaches socialism. Is the book bad? I would say it's a best seller for a reason, and it isn't it's subliminal message that put it there (IMHO).<br />And some of the lessons ,like sharing, seeking advice, and the associated lesson units are great!<br />It's well-written, kids are glued to it. I believe there is now an HBO series, and other books in the "Rainbow Fish" vein.<br />I'm not even sure if it was the author's original intent to teach socialism101 to small children. I suspect he had to know, and wrote it just for the promotion of socialist ideals. I just do not know, nor do I care. I only care about the end result.<br /><br />The problem immerges in the SOME of the lesson material for teachers. And here, your child----just as with any other child and teacher, is vulnerable.<br />It's not enough to trust your local schools for your child's education. Just as in 1930's-40's Germany, I would advise you know everything your kids are doing in school. Attend every PTC meeting,and "visit" every so-often on your day off, like Ken probably has. <br />If you leave the interpretation of all materials, not just "The Rainbow Fish" to the government, your child is institutionalised by grade school....And by the time he.she graduates high school, is ready for the liberal college of his/her choice.<br />Because if you think teachers of grade school children are any different a demnographic than college professors, you are dreaming. If you are sovialist,and encourage it's glorification in schools, than you have no problem. I do.<br /><br />This is the "trend" I mentioned above. Everyone is aware that univeristies are predominantly liberal, and have no problem with teaching socialism as a better system than we have now.<br />But at least, we expect college-age students to have the background to understand what has worked,and what has never worked as far as socialism/capitalism..<br /><br /> If it were just one child's book, "The Rainbow Fish", it probably would not have been singled-out by me or conservative talk show hosts.<br />But our kids are our future. It's more important than you (regardless of who "you" is).<br /><br /> You are established, are thinking about raising, are raising, or have raised children of your own, or have chosen not to go down that path.<br />Our kids, for all practical purposes, are the future "USes". You teach them how to live, and so do your teachers.<br />Be a part of thier education, or lose them to the state.

 

[JGREGORY]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

12footer, I would agree with you if you were talking about 4,5,6,7..... graders. At that age Children are forming their ideals, Expressing their indiduality, and starting to express their beliefs based off of what they are taught in school.<br /><br />If as a parent you do not show interest in what your children are doing in school and what is being taught and explaining to your children the difference between an Idealistic and a Realistic world, You as a parent deserve a failing grade. Too often parents let the schools be the only educational and guiding force in their childrrens lives. Parents have an obligation to be a "leveling" factor in their childs life. Too often teachers get caught up in the working model of "the theroy" and forget to teach the realities.<br /><br />In regards to this particular book however, Or any book for that matter. You can not, must not, fall into the trap of censorship. That just gives the "otherside" ammunition to paint you as an "uneducated cretin". <br /><br />Every childs book, movie, and television show professes, what those of us who are "conservative", consider a socialistic lifestyle. From sharing, to absolute respect for everybody no matter what their ideas, to overall inclusion in everything. But these are books are geared to ages 8 and younger. They are trying to teach respect and at some level morals that all to often are not being taught at home. <br /><br />I don't think you have much to worry about since they have had these types of books since I was a kid and you still had Bullys then, and you still have "Liberals" and "Conservatives" today. Kids will form their own opinions based off their lifes circumstances which is generally opposite of what is forced upon them. Because they are the first to be disillusioned with the "Ideal" when reality smacks them between the eyes. It's what they do when that reality hits that matters. Whether they step to plate and realize that nobody's going to hand them anything, or if they become crybabys and complain the word aint fair and demand that the Gov't "owes" them "something". That's when as parents you see your hard work pay off.

 

[DJ]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

Indoctrination?<br /><br />Of course it is, and all other idiological thoughts.<br /><br />Which one do you pick?<br /><br />Guess what? They're not teaching anything resembling what us over 40's were taught.<br /><br />Don't be surprised when your young-un's "sell the farm" and give it to the state.

 

[SS MAYFLOAT]

Re: Tomorrow's history.A tale of indoctrination

What an adult gets out of reading a childs book will be percieved differently by a child. As the child ages, their perception becomes more of that of an adult. One should keep in mind that the child at an early age has not been taught the stuff the adult already knows. They don't know what different governments and societies there are.<br /><br />I read the sample to my grandson which is 6. His comment was "PaPa, catch that fish, he will be easy to clean. He won't have many scales" I got a chuckle out of it since I was expecting the "It makes you happy to share". Just goes to show you that even with children, they think differently.