Tohatsu hot starting problem

[jcb493]

I have a 2010 Tohatsu TLDI 50HP motor. It has been a great motor so far, except for one minor issue. Sometimes the motor won't start right away after a long run. It will usually fire right up after waiting 10-15 minutes and then run fine again. I've noticed that this happens most often during the hot summer months and it has never happened when the temp is cool outside. Everything on the motor seems to be working good and none of the warning lights come on when this happens. I was thinking that it could be an issue from using gas with ethanol and that could be causing some sort of vapor lock problem. If that is the case, I could change to ethanol free gas or see if it helps to let the motor cool down at idle for a few minutes after a long run. I should also note that I have a water separator and I use PRI-G stabilizer in the gas tank. The motor has never left me stranded and the problem is so infrequent I'm not sure it is that big of a deal. On the other hand, I could ask the mechanic to check it out when I take the motor in for yearly maintenance. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a problem like this, or has any idea on what I could try to fix it.

 

[pvanv]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

I would definitely run non-ethanol fuel when available, as the alcohol causes myriad issues, but should not be causing your problem. I would also allow the motor to idle for a minute or two after running hard before shutdown. Regardless, the motor should restart OK under pretty much any conditions. See your dealer to have it checked out under the TLDI 3+1 warranty.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

It doesn't sound like anything is actually wrong so much as something may not be 100% right. Might be a fuel system issue or something as minor as a spark plug.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

I have a 2010 Tohatsu TLDI 50HP motor. It has been a great motor so far, except for one minor issue. Sometimes the motor won't start right away after a long run. It will usually fire right up after waiting 10-15 minutes and then run fine again. I've noticed that this happens most often during the hot summer months and it has never happened when the temp is cool outside. Everything on the motor seems to be working good and none of the warning lights come on when this happens. I was thinking that it could be an issue from using gas with ethanol and that could be causing some sort of vapor lock problem. If that is the case, I could change to ethanol free gas or see if it helps to let the motor cool down at idle for a few minutes after a long run. I should also note that I have a water separator and I use PRI-G stabilizer in the gas tank. The motor has never left me stranded and the problem is so infrequent I'm not sure it is that big of a deal. On the other hand, I could ask the mechanic to check it out when I take the motor in for yearly maintenance. Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has ever seen a problem like this, or has any idea on what I could try to fix it.

Man I am having the same exact problem. I have the same motor, a 50 TLDI tiller model. I have had it approx two months. It has performed great, with the exception of this problem. It seems to happen as you stated after a long run. Mine usually happens when I return to the boat ramp, when I dock the boat and kill the engine to back my trailer in, then it won't start. It will fire, barely idle at low RPM then die, over and over, until it will finally crank, idle at low RPM and suddenly idle itself to proper RPM idle and runs perfect. Mine did this three times to me, the last nearly leaving me stranded on the lake at dark when I stopped to check a jug line, until after 20 minutes it finally cranked. I then called the dealer and told them the problem, they said bring it in. I did, they checked it and said all was fine and they cleaned the plugs. I told him I did not think it was the plugs at all, because it never spit or sputtered at all when running. Got it back- fist time out it did it again. Brought it back, they checked it from top to bottom,they called tohatsu and Tohatsu told them to check all specs- fuel pressure, air pressure etc. then water test it. They did and could not replicate the problem. I got it back- it still does it but it seems the problem is not as severe. I will tell you to idle it down for 20-30 seconds before you kill it and it seems to help. Also if yours is tiller, make darn sure you have the throttle all the way down when you kill it and start it or it will do it. I am really frustrated with mine, being a brand new motor, I strictly followed break-in procedures etc. and have had these problems with no resolution. I had heard a lot of good about these motors but am really questioning my purchase. I had a bigger boat with an 150hp 07 etec,never had a single problem with the etec. Ran perfect always. Sold it and downsized to a smaller boat for better access to my favorite fishing holes and fuel economy purposes. Chose the TLDI for reliability/reputation, price and mainly fuel sipping ability----well it does sip fuel and was a good deal, but not if it won't crank and the dealer can't fix it, and obviously now others are having the same problem. I really hope we can get this corrected.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

What size batteries are you guys running?

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

What size batteries are you guys running?

Interstate 1000 cranking batt. Only thing other than motor hooked to this batt is nav lights, which were never run when these probs happened. I have a separate batt for the trolling motor. Also, this batt always spinns the motor very well, never seems weak or anything.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Could be vapor lock or a fuel system issue as simple as a pinhole in a line. To determine if it is a vapor lock, the next time it will not start, pull the engine cover and put your ear next to the VST. If you can hear bacon frying yo have vapor lock.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Could be vapor lock or a fuel system issue as simple as a pinhole in a line. To determine if it is a vapor lock, the next time it will not start, pull the engine cover and put your ear next to the VST. If you can hear bacon frying yo have vapor lock.

Not to sound like an idiot, but what is VST? Also, if it is vapor lock, what then? BTW, thanks for the help!

 

[sschefer]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

VST is vapor separation tank. It's only present on injected models.

I had the same problem with a Nissan Tiller. Turns out the throttle is also a sort of reset. If it fails to start, turn the throttle fully off, wait about a minute, then turn it back to the start position and it should start. If you have a remote throttle on it, you may need to have the cable adjusted, it's probably just a little bit too tight.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

What he said Basically, I suspect that you have an intermittent issue in the fuel system itself. That is always the most difficult to find and fix because it's not bad when when the tech is testing for it. Patience and a tech with the ability to keep looking for it is in your future. The primary thing is that the dealer needs to spend their time and Tohatsu's money to find the problem. IE You need to get to a point where you can do with out the engine for a week or two and let them deal with it...Do not take, "we can't find it", for an answer

 

[jcb493]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

OK, so I thought I would post what I found out about this problem. I took my motor to the shop to get the yearly maintenance done on the motor. I also had my mechanic check the motor and pull the codes. Everything came out good, so he called a tech over at Tohatsu. The tech said that the problem is a vapor lock issue. Tohatsu is aware of the problem and a very small number of motors have had the issue that I described, mainly in the deep south. They have been doing testing for the last three years in some of the hotter southern states like Florida, Louisiana, and Texas (which all have climate similar to where I live in SC). The vapor lock is not caused by ethanol, but by gas stations selling winter blend fuels during the summer, because they can get it cheaper. These winter blend fuels have a low boiling point compared to other fuel blends, and this is the reason for the vapor lock. When the motor shuts off, the cooling system also stops, but the motor continues to heat. This vaporizes the fuel in the lines and causes the ECU to think that the motor is out of gas. Once the gas cools down, things run normal. That is why the motor runs good after sitting for a while. The tech said that it should work to let the motor cool down at idle before shutting it off after a long run, but it would be better to instal an electric external fuel pump on the motor, so that is what they are doing. The pump mounts inside the boat next to the fuel water separator. My mechanic is also going to send the ECU to Tohatsu to get it re-programmed for the new fuel pump. Anyway, all of this is covered under the warranty, even the cost of shipping the ECU. I will be without the boat for about a week while these changes are being made. It is not the greatest situation, since we all want and expect perfect trouble free motors, but things happen. I can't really complain at all about the customer service at Tohatsu since they are very willing to deal with a situation that is not really in their control.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

OK, so I thought I would post what I found out about this problem. I took my motor to the shop to get the yearly maintenance done on the motor. I also had my mechanic check the motor and pull the codes. Everything came out good, so he called a tech over at Tohatsu. The tech said that the problem is a vapor lock issue. Tohatsu is aware of the problem and a very small number of motors have had the issue that I described, mainly in the deep south. They have been doing testing for the last three years in some of the hotter southern states like Florida, Louisiana, and Texas (which all have climate similar to where I live in SC). The vapor lock is not caused by ethanol, but by gas stations selling winter blend fuels during the summer, because they can get it cheaper. These winter blend fuels have a low boiling point compared to other fuel blends, and this is the reason for the vapor lock. When the motor shuts off, the cooling system also stops, but the motor continues to heat. This vaporizes the fuel in the lines and causes the ECU to think that the motor is out of gas. Once the gas cools down, things run normal. That is why the motor runs good after sitting for a while. The tech said that it should work to let the motor cool down at idle before shutting it off after a long run, but it would be better to instal an electric external fuel pump on the motor, so that is what they are doing. The pump mounts inside the boat next to the fuel water separator. My mechanic is also going to send the ECU to Tohatsu to get it re-programmed for the new fuel pump. Anyway, all of this is covered under the warranty, even the cost of shipping the ECU. I will be without the boat for about a week while these changes are being made. It is not the greatest situation, since we all want and expect perfect trouble free motors, but things happen. I can't really complain at all about the customer service at Tohatsu since they are very willing to deal with a situation that is not really in their control.

Thanks so much for the info. I have forwarded your explanation to my dealer. He is sending it to his Tohatsu rep for approval for my motor. My motor has done this several times since I replied to your thread and it is getting annoying. I am in Texas and it has been very hot lately so that may explain why I am having such a problem with this issue. I will post when I hear back from the dealer. Thanks again.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Just a side note. Anytime something like this gets publicity there ends up being a rash of "I bet that's what is wrong with my motor" people who suddenly imagine they have that problem when they do not. Vapor lock is much more rare(on any brand) than you would believe. That does not mean that it does not happen...It can. But, the likelihood of any one person experiencing it is very, very, very remote. An outboard mechanic may never even see a case in their lifetime. I have only personally witnessed vapor lock three times. Twice on some Honda's 10 years ago and once on a Suzuki at about the same time. Same marina now that I think about it. Regardless, if you suspect vapor lock bring it to your tech's attention as very few will look for it right off the bat. Remember that the bacon frying sound is the universal dead giveaway

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Just a side note. Anytime something like this gets publicity there ends up being a rash of "I bet that's what is wrong with my motor" people who suddenly imagine they have that problem when they do not. Vapor lock is much more rare(on any brand) than you would believe. That does not mean that it does not happen...It can. But, the likelihood of any one person experiencing it is very, very, very remote. An outboard mechanic may never even see a case in their lifetime. I have only personally witnessed vapor lock three times. Twice on some Honda's 10 years ago and once on a Suzuki at about the same time. Same marina now that I think about it. Regardless, if you suspect vapor lock bring it to your tech's attention as very few will look for it right off the bat. Remember that the bacon frying sound is the universal dead giveaway

I am sure that could be true, but I hope anyone else having this problem can read this. Before I found this thread, while looking for an answer to my problem, I found a 50 TLDI just like mine for sale locally in local internet classifieds. The seller explained in the ad that an external fuel pump had been added by the dealer and that this modification had a warranty, but the ad did not say why this had been done. I tried to contact this guy by email to ask him if he had problems and why he was selling in an effort to find an answer, but got no response. Then I found this thread and began posting. I can only assume that this guy had the same problem. I have contacted my dealer with this information as stated in my previous post. He contacted Tohatsu and within an hour called me back and said they approved the fix.

This leads me to believe that Tohatsu is well aware of this problem and it is not so uncommon on these motors. While I am somewhat glad to have a possible answer to my problem, I am horrified that I had to do my own research for my dealer to find the problem, while Tohatsu was aware of the problem and didn't have them check this during the other two time I brought them my boat. Now, I have to bring it back for another week. I am also very unsure if I want my brand spanking new motor that I shelled out five grand for to have a band aid fix by a dealer that knows nothing about thses motors just to make it run correctly. I mean,this problem started for me the very first outing with the motor, and has continually given me this problem for two months. I am extremely frustrated......wish the dealer would just take the whole rig back.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Here's the cold, hard, truth.

Congratulations. You just became the poster child for my post. Leaping to a conclusion about what is wrong, if anything is actually wrong, is precisely what you should not be doing at this point. Then you actually say "Tohatsu is well aware of this problem and it is not so uncommon on these motors". What an incredibly unjustified thing to say. Out of the tens of thousands of these things that have been sold over the last 11 years you know of one person, possibly two people, across all of the U.S. that have said that Tohatsu has a fix for a rare vapor lock issue. Vapor lock, if that is what is wrong, is not an engine issue. It is a fuel issue in combination with an extreme temperature issue, which is not an engine manufacturer's fault. Less than one out of every 200 sold in the U.S. have had a reported vapor lock problem...And out of that some did not have vapor lock.

So here is what I suggest you do. Take your engine to a different dealer, tell them you suspect vapor lock, let them determine if that is true, let them fix it if that is the case and then enjoy boating. You need to keep in mind that if you do have vapor lock Tohatsu is doing you a huge favor by going outside of warranty and giving you a fix for YOUR problem...No outboard engine manufacturer covers a vapor lock issue as a defect under warranty...They all cover it, if they do cover it at all, as a goodwill gesture.

Now here's the part that should make you feel warm and fuzzy.

I feel for you and oddly enough, Tohatsu, as a company, does too. There is no worse feeling then being stuck on the water with a new engine that does not start with the flick of a switch. I'm sorry that the dealer who looked at your engine didn't find the problem the first or second time you reported it. Unfortunately the problem is so rare that it is the last thing that anyone thinks to look for. If it does turn out that you have vapor lock problem there are a couple of things you can do short of having them add the additional pump.

1) Change brands of gasoline...make sure it is a true brand change rather than a label change.

2) When you are running along and decide to stop don't turn your engine off for a couple of minutes. Just let it idle for two minutes and then turn it off.

3) Be patient. Tohatsu is looking at a long term solution to our refinery/fuel blend issue here in the states. Those Japanese elves are working in there tiny little workshop for all of you one half of 1% people

4) If your local dealer can not or will not help you just let me know. I can always make a call and elevate it up the chain.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Here's the cold, hard, truth.

Congratulations. You just became the poster child for my post. Leaping to a conclusion about what is wrong, if anything is actually wrong, is precisely what you should not be doing at this point. Then you actually say "Tohatsu is well aware of this problem and it is not so uncommon on these motors". What an incredibly unjustified thing to say. Out of the tens of thousands of these things that have been sold over the last 11 years you know of one person, possibly two people, across all of the U.S. that have said that Tohatsu has a fix for a rare vapor lock issue. Vapor lock, if that is what is wrong, is not an engine issue. It is a fuel issue in combination with an extreme temperature issue, which is not an engine manufacturer's fault. Less than one out of every 200 sold in the U.S. have had a reported vapor lock problem...And out of that some did not have vapor lock.

So here is what I suggest you do. Take your engine to a different dealer, tell them you suspect vapor lock, let them determine if that is true, let them fix it if that is the case and then enjoy boating. You need to keep in mind that if you do have vapor lock Tohatsu is doing you a huge favor by going outside of warranty and giving you a fix for YOUR problem...No outboard engine manufacturer covers a vapor lock issue as a defect under warranty...They all cover it, if they do cover it at all, as a goodwill gesture.

Now here's the part that should make you feel warm and fuzzy.

I feel for you and oddly enough, Tohatsu, as a company, does too. There is no worse feeling then being stuck on the water with a new engine that does not start with the flick of a switch. I'm sorry that the dealer who looked at your engine didn't find the problem the first or second time you reported it. Unfortunately the problem is so rare that it is the last thing that anyone thinks to look for. If it does turn out that you have vapor lock problem there are a couple of things you can do short of having them add the additional pump.

1) Change brands of gasoline...make sure it is a true brand change rather than a label change.

2) When you are running along and decide to stop don't turn your engine off for a couple of minutes. Just let it idle for two minutes and then turn it off.

3) Be patient. Tohatsu is looking at a long term solution to our refinery/fuel blend issue here in the states. Those Japanese elves are working in there tiny little workshop for all of you one half of 1% people

4) If your local dealer can not or will not help you just let me know. I can always make a call and elevate it up the chain.

Sir, While I really appreciate you taking the time to help people such as myself, I don't appreciate you insinuating I have just imagined I have a problem and I am a poster child for your "theory". I respect the fact that you are an expert on these motors. But what an incredibly unjustified thing for you to say. I have a brand new engine that is designed to run on pump gasoline. I put pump gasoline in the tank and have tried several brands. It fails to start at least once every time I go out. I have been working with the dealer since I got the motor to solve this problem. My dealer has no clue what is wrong with it until now. That is the manufacturers responsibility to remedy and I don't think I should feel blessed that they stand behind a brand new motor. They should! There is no doubt by reading your many previous posts that you are extremely brand loyal to Tohatsu and do not want any negative info getting out about them. But the fact is there is a problem, and you insulting people like myself because I am trying to find a solution and yes make others aware- doesn't help anyone. Yes, I said Tohatsu is well aware of the problem, how else would they have a re-map for the ECU and an external fuel pump available to remedy the problem if they were not aware? I highly doubt there are only two people across the US that have had this problem. I can find more than that. How many had this prob who don't live in boater's forums? Thats the cold hard truth.

Now the warm and fuzzy- I really do appreciate your help and the original poster as I may have some sort of solution now. Yes I am going to be patient because I really don't want to do this modification to my new motor, I want the motor to perform like is is supposed to.
Good day to you.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Well, I am sure you do have a problem. I have already told you that less than 1 out of 200 of these engines have had that kind of problem, but you are oblivious to that. I have also told you that the gasoline that you are using contributes to vapor lock and you are oblivious to that. I told you that YOU only know of two people who may have had vapor lock and you twisted that completely... In 11 years they have had more than that...And the rate is still less than 1 out of 200. You said I am brand loyal...Seriously? I like Tohatsu and as I am constantly telling people here it is my favorite brand. I also tell people they are no better or worse than anything else. You are indeed a poster child for jumping to conclusions because YOU have no idea what is wrong with your engine. You suspect that it is vapor lock...You don't know anything of the kind. You read in to my comment that I think you might be imagining a problem. I didn't say that. There may not be anything wrong with your engine itself. You might have bad fuel or a water bubble in the fuel system...Or some other problem that is not the fault of the engine. Stop acting like you know something that you don't and think about the things you have posted.

"I can only assume that this guy had the same problem

it is not so uncommon on these motors

I am horrified that I had to do my own research for my dealer to find the problem, while Tohatsu was aware of the problem and didn't have them check this during the other two time I brought them my boat

I am also very unsure if I want my brand spanking new motor that I shelled out five grand for to have a band aid fix by a dealer that knows nothing about thses motors just to make it run correctly."

Real Nice. I bet you would be whole lot more reasonable in person but the Internet always seems to embolden the worse in people. To bad you aren't one of my customers...Your attitude would be very different.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

Well, I am sure you do have a problem. I have already told you that less than 1 out of 200 of these engines have had that kind of problem, but you are oblivious to that. I have also told you that the gasoline that you are using contributes to vapor lock and you are oblivious to that. I told you that YOU only know of two people who may have had vapor lock and you twisted that completely... In 11 years they have had more than that...And the rate is still less than 1 out of 200. You said I am brand loyal...Seriously? I like Tohatsu and as I am constantly telling people here it is my favorite brand. I also tell people they are no better or worse than anything else. You are indeed a poster child for jumping to conclusions because YOU have no idea what is wrong with your engine. You suspect that it is vapor lock...You don't know anything of the kind. You read in to my comment that I think you might be imagining a problem. I didn't say that. There may not be anything wrong with your engine itself. You might have bad fuel or a water bubble in the fuel system...Or some other problem that is not the fault of the engine. Stop acting like you know something that you don't and think about the things you have posted.

"I can only assume that this guy had the same problem

it is not so uncommon on these motors

I am horrified that I had to do my own research for my dealer to find the problem, while Tohatsu was aware of the problem and didn't have them check this during the other two time I brought them my boat

I am also very unsure if I want my brand spanking new motor that I shelled out five grand for to have a band aid fix by a dealer that knows nothing about thses motors just to make it run correctly."

Real Nice. I bet you would be whole lot more reasonable in person but the Internet always seems to embolden the worse in people. To bad you aren't one of my customers...Your attitude would be very different.

Really? Now you are taking shots at me? I am oblivious to this and that.......I don't know this and that?????? You are very opinionated aren't you? But you don't respect anyone elses. I could continue this and quote you but I really don't care to.

 

[TOHATSU GURU]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

You don't have anything but, opinion based on nothing. And that is your problem. You are certainly not my equal in knowledge about outboards...Tohatsu or otherwise. I don't what your field is but I suspect I am not your equal in it...But I can assure you that whatever that field is, you will never see a post of mine based on mindless, unsubstantiated opinion that flies in the face of people who do know more than I. And that is the difference between you and I. I know my limitations and do not embarrass myself about things I know nothing about.

 

[myhuntfish]

Re: Tohatsu hot starting problem

You don't have anything but, opinion based on nothing. And that is your problem. You are certainly not my equal in knowledge about outboards...Tohatsu or otherwise. I don't what your field is but I suspect I am not your equal in it...But I can assure you that whatever that field is, you will never see a post of mine based on mindless, unsubstantiated opinion that flies in the face of people who do know more than I. And that is the difference between you and I. I know my limitations and do not embarrass myself about things I know nothing about.

You seem to think that any opinion other than yours is unsubstantiated and based on nothing. You are a bully in this make believe cyber world of yours. You attack anyone who you feel threatened by like you have me. If this is not true then stop posting these rants attacking me.