To Rebuild Or Junk The Boat

[DarwinDodge]

Hi every one I'm new to the site and new to boating in general a coworker recently gave me a 1985 wellcraft American 190 with the 3.7l 170hp mercruiser.
I got the engine to running it sounds good I think and the out drive seemed to be working to.
He said if you decelerate to fast the #4 piston would hit the spark plug I ran the engine for 2 hours with no problem.
I did her a light knocking sound that I believe is coming from the outdrive it goes away at idle comes back at any rpm above idle.
I am a diesel mechanic by trade so the mechanical repairs don't bother me.
The whole boat is rotten transom, stringers are none existent literally most of them are completely gone empty fiberglass shell.
my son and I have removed the floor engine and out drive.
I have almost no fiber glass experience but am willing to learn.
my questions are
1. Is this boat worth fixing
2. the drive shaft u joints are good that's what I thought the knocking was any ideas what it might be
3. If I do rebuild the boat should I separate the hull from the top half of the boat to gain access to the bow for stringer and floor replacement.
4. If not how do I get under the compartments to replace stringers and floor
I have been doing some research on stringer and transom repair and am convinced that the only way to fix this boat is total replacement of stringers and transom.
Thanks in advance

 

[jigngrub]

IMO Wellcraft boats are worth the effort to restore them, they're nice boats.and if you have an operational drivetrain you have half the battle won already.

... and yes, new stringers, transom, and decking is the only way to go. It's a lot of hard dirty work, but in the end you get a like new boat for a small fraction of the price of a brand new one. You also get the satisfaction of knowing you did it yourself and you'll know every cubic inch of the boat.

If you're really interested in restoring that boat start studying the different rebuilds on this site and educate yourself in the fine art of boat restoration. There will always be someone here to help you along the way when you have questions.

Post up some pics of your boat and let us see what you have to work with.

 

[gm280]

First things first DarwinDodge, :welcome: to iboats. Great to have you aboard...

So you have a ,and it has rotted transom, stringers and floor. Other then that it is in great shape. If it is any consolation, that is the usual condition on so many boat projects on these forums. So you are in great company. We love pictures on here. So you have to post lots of them so we can see exactly what you are seeing and working with. So start NOW, taking tons of pictures from every angle and position you can think of, both inside the hull and out...including close ups and further away shots too. And also take lots and lots of measurements and write them down for future needs. You will be amazing how the pictures and measurements will be used again. I would also suggest you start reading a few of the projects presently going on, on these forums. It will give you an idea what is in store. It will be smelly, dirty, itchy, stinky, very dusty labor intense work. But once finished you will be extremely proud of YOUR efforts and new boat... So post some pictures and let's get going... :thumb:

 

[DarwinDodge]

Thanks guys I have been doing lots of research on stringer and transom repair. my plan of attack is finish the cleaning of the boat vacuum and wash.my son and I pulled the drive train today and removed the water logged foam. next I will take more pictures measure the existing stringers.
prep to separate the top cap from the hull then cut out the old stringers.
last grind away the fiberglass from the inside of the transom for core replacement.

 

[gm280]

Thanks guys I have been doing lots of research on stringer and transom repair. my plan of attack is finish the cleaning of the boat vacuum and wash.my son and I pulled the drive train today and removed the water logged foam. next I will take more pictures measure the existing stringers.
prep to separate the top cap from the hull then cut out the old stringers.
last grind away the fiberglass from the inside of the transom for core replacement.

Sounds like a good plan. We will need pictures of it, or it didn't happen...

 

[64osby]

Just to offer a different approach. You might look to see if there is a good hull with a blown / cracked motor.

I'm not a fiberglass guy,but my understanding would be that this will cost 2,000 to 4,000 to do the glass work and get a budget interior in the hull. Maybe more.

You might get lucky finding a hull that your motor could drop in and need some sprucing up. Just a different way to look at a project.

Good luck with the project.

 

[pauloman]

having a finished hull is an asset for anyone wanting to mess around with boats. ......

 

[DarwinDodge]

Just to offer a different approach. You might look to see if there is a good hull with a blown / cracked motor.

I'm not a fiberglass guy,but my understanding would be that this will cost 2,000 to 4,000 to do the glass work and get a budget interior in the hull. Maybe more.

You might get lucky finding a hull that your motor could drop in and need some sprucing up. Just a different way to look at a project.

Good luck with the project.

[/QUOTE
That sounds like a good idea and price wise I was thinking the same thing the only reason i'm even considering fixing the boat is what I have invested in the rebuild will be all the money I have in it.
but don't want to end up spending 10,000 on a 3,500 dollar boat​

 

[DeepBlue2010]

That sounds like a good idea and price wise I was thinking the same thing the only reason i'm even considering fixing the boat is what I have invested in the rebuild will be all the money I have in it.
but don't want to end up spending 10,000 on a 3,500 dollar boat​

Except that the donor boat might end up needing a rebuild also, if not immediately, maybe in few seasons. Having a boat built right with your own hands - done right - comes with very long term peace of mind. How long do you see yourself enjoying this boat?

Cost-wise, you will not end up spending 10K on this boat unless you want to. Every step of the build has multiple options. There is the substandard, the good a practical and the ridiculous "I want it because I can afford it" options in almost every step.

I was helping a friend with his stringers and he made a "research" the night before we were going to buy the wood and he decided that he needs mahogany because "it will never rot". Needless to say how this conversation went but he ended up spending multiple folds what he practically needed to. And there are much more examples...

Transom.... Wood or Seacast
Resin.... Epoxy or poly
Deck cover .. Paint, gel, SeaDeck

You can build this boat with a really good standards with less that 5K. Comparing the boat after you spend this money on it a one that sells for 3K is comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same boat

 

[DarwinDodge]

Except that the donor boat might end up needing a rebuild also, if not immediately, maybe in few seasons. Having a boat built right with your own hands - done right - comes with very long term peace of mind. How long do you see yourself enjoying this boat?

Cost-wise, you will not end up spending 10K on this boat unless you want to. Every step of the build has multiple options. There is the substandard, the good a practical and the ridiculous "I want it because I can afford it" options in almost every step.

I was helping a friend with his stringers and he made a "research" the night before we were going to buy the wood and he decided that he needs mahogany because "it will never rot". Needless to say how this conversation went but he ended up spending multiple folds what he practically needed to. And there are much more examples...

Transom.... Wood or Seacast
Resin.... Epoxy or poly
Deck cover .. Paint, gel, SeaDeck

You can build this boat with a really good standards with less that 5K. Comparing the boat after you spend this money on it a one that sells for 3K is comparing apples to oranges. They are not the same boat



I agree I said 3,500 because that to around 5,000 is what I figure a decent used ready to use boat would cost me.
I like the idea of restoring the boat cause it will be a new boat again and should last another 30 years.
as far as materials go I was thinking exterior grade plywood for the stringers and transom.
I was reading on the rotdoctor web site about treating the wood to prevent rot.
After the wood dries from the treatment coat with epoxy reisen to seal out moisture.
I still haven't made up my mind about what type reisen I should use but am leaning towards epoxy both to glue in the stringers and transom and for the glass work.

 

[DeepBlue2010]

I were you, this is what I would do

First, if you will not going to be using Marine ply, use Arauco Plywood as a second option. The glue used between plies is water resistant and the sheet has minimum voids.

I would use Vinyl-Ester resin not epoxy. After cutting your pieces to fit (whatever they are, stringers, transom, etc) wet them with resin. Get the edges really wet. If you see any dry spots,, go over them again and give the edges a second coat while you are at it.

Now, the wood is ready for glass. One of the reasons for the delamination when using poly is that builders - to save time/money - skip this step. As a result, the dry wood immediately absorbs the resin out of the glass leaving you with weak laminate that will delaminate sooner or later.

This and good craftsmanship will protect your wood for ages. Look at the bulkhead in your picture, it is not even glassed to the hull, just two pieces of tab and they called it good!! They way I see, our boats - built this way were doomed to obsolescence the day they left the factory. That is why I am not supporting the donor boat idea. Sooner or later, it will need the same surgery because the "illness" is built in

 

[DarwinDodge]

I will look into the Arauco plywood and I was thinking epoxy i'm not experienced with glass work if I understand what I read right VE resin isn't the best choice for bonding the transom and stringers in place.
I have and continue to study the process and methods that will be required to get through this project

 

[DarwinDodge]

As of right now we have all the interior and drive train removed.
All the buoyancy foam removed and all the screws and hardware striped from the transom and stringers.
All the mess vacuumed up then washed the boat inside and out.

The next step I think will be to separate the top half from the hull.
That brings up a few questions.
1. what is the best way to do this?
2. Should I take the boat off the trailer first and put on stand or can I leave it on the trailer?
3. will the hull be able to hold its shape with or do I need to build supports for it?

 

[DarwinDodge]

here is a link to photo bucket with some pictures of the boat http://s736.photobucket.com/user/Darwin_Dodge/library/wellcraft

 

[sphelps]

You should be able to leave it on the trailer . You might want to add a few more supports under it though . Just brace them off to the trailer temporarily ..

 

[ondarvr]

Forget the Rot Dr stuff, thinned epoxies are of little value. VE or even polyester resin will work fine, and in reality it won't make much of a difference in the final build no matter what resin you use, the difference will be in your attention to detail.

 

[jigngrub]

VE or even polyester resin will work fine, and in reality it won't make much of a difference in the final build no matter what resin you use, the difference will be in your attention to detail.

Exactly, all the resins (including epoxy) will do the same thing in the end, what matters most is that they're applied properly. One of the biggest and most common mistakes we see on this forum is people trying to use polyester resin by itself instead of with fiberglass cloth or matt. Polyester resin is pretty much useless without glass cloth or matt, it's weak and will crack and peel off without the reinforcing of the fiberglass. Another thing we see is people that don't know the difference between epoxy and polyester resin, they think that because poly is a 2 part mix it is epoxy resin or the same thing... it is not.

 

[DarwinDodge]

great info guys thanks a bunch and I don't know the diff in the resins or the clothes that's why i'm studying and asking questions.
what I saw on the rot doc site was a link to another site about treating the wood with a product that is primary made of ethylene glycol and boric acid to prevent rot from starting if the wood did get wet.
I don't plan on thinning my resin I will heat the wood just prior to applying a primer coat of resin to the wood

 

[JASinIL2006]

Reading up on a number of restorations BEFORE you start buying materials will help you save money and time. One thing that seems to be fairly common is that guys get eager to start, and they don't plan out the work very well. Then they have to correct mistakes and re-do work. Much easier to think it through, ask questions here, and then buy your stuff.

I'm interested in your plan to heat the wood before treating with resin. Why do you want to do that? Heat will cause the catalyzed resin to kick off faster, which isn't necessarily what's desired. Normally, we want that resin to really soak in before it hardens. Seems like heat would thwart that.

 

[DarwinDodge]

Reading up on a number of restorations BEFORE you start buying materials will help you save money and time. One thing that seems to be fairly common is that guys get eager to start, and they don't plan out the work very well. Then they have to correct mistakes and re-do work. Much easier to think it through, ask questions here, and then buy your stuff.

I'm interested in your plan to heat the wood before treating with resin. Why do you want to do that? Heat will cause the catalyzed resin to kick off faster, which isn't necessarily what's desired. Normally, we want that resin to really soak in before it hardens. Seems like heat would thwart that.

By heating the wood a little just warm enough you cant touch it eith by laying in direct sunlight or with a heat gun it will thin the resin a little with out the negative side effects of thinning with solvent or heating the resin it's self.
also as the wood cools it will draw the resin in a little deeper.
there is a thread on it at west systems web site