To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

ICEMAN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
292
HI everyone, I just read a post where there was alot of debate about wether to de-carb your motor or not. There were mixed feelings about it. I'd like to clear the air a little. The carbon build-up you get is going to do damage to your motor. The water passing thru your motor cools it. But believe it or not, the fuel going into the combustion chamber helps to cool the piston also. When the fuel burns, the heat increases rapidly. Now once the fuel has burned, we have a small amount of carbon that sticks to the piston. As it builds up, it puts a thicker coat of carbon on the piston. After time the piston with this coat on, gets slowly hotter and hotter. The piston does not cool as effectively. Did you know that when you heat metal it expands? The piston is made of metal, and it expands and contracts constantly while the engine is running. Now lets put a coat of carbon on it. Over time lets keep adding more and more. The piston gets slowly hotter and hotter, when this happens, it expands, more and more. The carbon also gets in behind the rings, pushing them out a little more. Eventually this carbon build up allows the piston and rings to heat up enough to cause friction in the cylinder. Friction bad! Scores the piston and cylinders. Overall your best option is to de-carbonize your motor. I would say to use a product that your manufacturer offers. This process should be started before you get a substantial build up. If you have a large build-up of carbon, it is most likely that you already have the beginning of a failure. Carbon remover works, but if it builds up and gets hard, it may take quite a few times to get it clean. A heavy crust, requires work and time to clean it. If it is really bad, you may have to remove the pistons and rings and clean them, but if you use the carbon remover early, and regularly, it will keep your engine clean and running longer. <br /><br />If you used a carbon cleaner and you engine failed shortly after, your engine was most likely not far from failing anyway. <br /><br />As far as so called snake oils, I would agree, some work and some are garbage, The manufacturers of your motor don't test the other guys products, why not? my guess is that if they tested one product from one guy, what would the other guy say? why test his, why not test mine, it's better? The manufacturers would spend a lot of $ testing other guys stuff. Result, we would have to pay for that. Using snake oils, and knowing the results, comes from those of you/us that try them. If they work, we tell others, if they don't, we tell also. We all know that we use the snake oils at our own risk.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

That works for me
smile.gif
 

bit_twiddler

Recruit
Joined
May 29, 2001
Messages
2
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

What type of cleaner should i use to remove this carbon from the pistons? Should I spray it directly in the cylinder head or add it to the fuel. I was told that fuel additves are bad for outboard motors. I have an old 1968 merc 500 and I dont want to ruin the fuel pump putting the wrong additives in it.
 

12Footer

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
8,217
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

Do try to avoid the additives,as (in my opinion) they will slowly devour your fuel line.fuel pump,valve seats and,in some cases,the float inside the carb.<br />So will alcohol "enhanced" fuels.<br />The best way to deal with carbon is to use a spray like Seafoam Decarb spray, or Valvtect outboard decarb cleaner. These products are sprayed directly into the carb body. Follow the directions on the can.<br />Some outboards (later model OMCs i believe)<br />have a fiting right on the intake, to hook the can to. I don't have first-hand knowlege of that, but have read about it.
 

ICEMAN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
292
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

I am reposting this as this question has come up again...
 

Firewood

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2001
Messages
117
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

Thanks for the advise. I'll give the ole' girl a good cleaning.
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

ICEMAN, i gotta poke at you ...nuthin personal, a line of reasoning needs a counterpoint......<br />when a hydrocarbon fuel burns, yes it produces a hard carbon that can be deposited..where it can be deposited is temperature related...hard carbon will only form [condense] in certain areas....inside a combustion chamber it will only get so thick before it will start sloughing off...will the maximum thickness of carbon increase combustion temps beyond a 'clean chamber'?<br />NO.....you have to consider how most combustion heat is transfered out out of the chamber....cylinder head and top 1/3 of cylinder...pistons transfer heat through the rings/ring lands and skirts....if rings are coked and stick out of piston, excess friction chews up the rings/overtemps the piston and scores it....if rings packed into ring grooves and not touching cylinder walls top of piston can go overtemp from lack of cyl wall conduction and blowby will<br /> still score...<br />pistons are designed to operate at a certain temp...any more will score...will a layer of carbon on a piston crown necessarily make a piston run hotter? I think not....remember a piston gets cooling from an intake charge fron the BOTTOM and the top....
 

ICEMAN

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 11, 2000
Messages
292
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

Hi Oddd1, I like a good poke.
smile.gif
(My turn.) Though I didn't go into detail on all the ways cooling of the cylinder and piston takes place, It looks like you read what I posted, changed the wording, and pretty much agreed with me on most of it, except that carbon build-up on top of a piston will not make it run hotter. You mentioned that carbon build up will not make the ***bustion temperature increase. I agree, because I never said that the combustion temperature will increase. My point was that the piston temperature will increase. Will carbon build-up on top of the piston allow it to cool sufficiently? I don't think so> If it does not, won't the piston slowly increase in temperature, expand more, and score?
 

sony2001

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 17, 2001
Messages
607
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

Last week I thought of another way to decarbonize thats more effective and less damaging to nonmetals. If you ever find yourself with a warm engine and the cowling is off, whipout the plugs and spray the piston crowns. By the time its back together fire it up. Great for the rings!<br /><br />------------------
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: To decarb or not, how's this for an answer?

Gee, iceman where you gettin extra piston heat in your motors from? silly me, i always thought piston temperature was DIRECTLY related to combustion temps...my arguement here is what that insulating layer of carbon on the top of the piston is doing....you say it holds heat in the piston causing overtemp damage...i say it makes little difference...<br />when people think about decarbing a motor, they usually do it for one of two reasons...1 the motor started running bad and the easy fix in a can is always attractive, or, 2 strictly as a maintenance dose...the vast majority of users fall in the former category.....and i agree with you , when it gets to this point it is usually to late, something already ate itself...<br />as a maintenance dose, perhaps it will get carbon out of ring lands.....but my concern is for the other components in the engine...gaskets, o rings and pump diaphrams that are exposed/degraded by this stuff.. shouldn't this be a concern?<br />I have seen many users on this board swear by the stuff.....I have seen many , many high horsepower outboards go thousand hours with heavy carbon buildup internally with no ill effects [stuck rings scored pistons]<br />Istill think the big concern is oil quality....use a good oil and decarbing becomes a moot point....
 
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