Timing Problems

[lucky7's]

Re: Timing Problems

Yea I did zero lash and then you do 360 degree turn after zero lash. I cant start and adjust because the exhaust manifold has to be removed to get the valve cover off. However I think i figured out the problem.. The rotor tang has to be aligned to the arrow mark before you slide the distributer shaft in and ive been tryin to align the tang and arrow after the shaft is in.. And ofcourse because of the helical gears the rotor tang is going to spin forward some when it slides in.. That dang manual is so obscure... Think i got it now will try tomorrow... Just hope i didnt screw my engine up tryin to start it with the timing off.... Jeesh

 

[lucky7's]

Re: Timing Problems

Or, maybe you were on TDC of #6, and adjusted the valves for #1, and vice versa?

If your sure your distributor is in right, the rotor should be pointing to #1, when you're adjusting the valves for #1, and pointing to #6, when adjusting the valves for #6.

Na i positivley did that right. you can eliminate whether you are on #1 or #6 by looking at which pushrods are pushed up. If one of the pushrods are pushed up on the list of valves you can adjust adjust at #1 the you are definatley on #6. and vice versa.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Timing Problems

However I think i figured out the problem.. The rotor tang has to be aligned to the arrow mark before you slide the distributer shaft in and ive been tryin to align the tang and arrow after the shaft is in.. And ofcourse because of the helical gears the rotor tang is going to spin forward some when it slides in.. That dang manual is so obscure... Think i got it now will try tomorrow... Just hope i didnt screw my engine up tryin to start it with the timing off.... Jeesh

Sounds like you're on the right track now, yeah, you've gotta play with those Chevy distributors, till it drops in just right!

I usually, give it 1/2 a turn clockwise, drop it in, then pull the base up some, and move it forward a bit, then drop it in again, then pull it up again, and move it forward, one tooth at a time, until it goes just where I want it.

 

[lucky7's]

Re: Timing Problems

Yea I can get it to drop in and align with the arrow but thats wrong. I have to align the tang with the arrow and then drop it in. And then it wont be align with that arrow anymore... Like im saying I hope i didnt screw anything else up in the process.. Man thanks for all the help and suggestions. Hope i can get er runnin tomorrow..

 

[picklenjim]

Re: Timing Problems

Yea I can get it to drop in and align with the arrow but thats wrong. I have to align the tang with the arrow and then drop it in. And then it wont be align with that arrow anymore... Like im saying I hope i didnt screw anything else up in the process.. Man thanks for all the help and suggestions. Hope i can get er runnin tomorrow..

First be sure you have the timing mark on balancer between 0 and 9 BTDC.Then drop in the distributer with rotor tang as close as possible to the arrow.Then turn the BASE ONLY to align the rotor tang exactly with the arrow.This should also be pointing to #1 plug wire on cap.Rotor will not turn because of gears being meshed.Be sure oil pump drive shaft is lined up correctly to engage in bottom of distributor shaft when you drop in the distributor.

 

[picklenjim]

Re: Timing Problems

Did you set your valves at zero lash? that's where I like to put them, then start the engine, and do a running adjustment, setting them 1/2 turn down from zero lash when done, this way I'm not jamming any of the valves. I've seen too many times when a static cold valve adjustment creates problems.

Sorry Mik but I disagree with you on your valve adjusting procedure on hydraulic lifter cams.As long as you fill your lifters with oil during installation and bring them down to zero lash and then 1/2 to 1 more turns they should be perfect.You should never need to adjust them again for life.No manuals ever tell you to adjust them with the engine running.Most boat engine you can't even do that because you can't remove the valve cover due to the exhaust manifold.I'm sure Mercury and all car manufactures never set them running from the factory.I can't recall ever seeing any problems with a "static cold valve adjustment".

 

[MikDee]

Re: Timing Problems

Sorry Mik but I disagree with you on your valve adjusting procedure on hydraulic lifter cams.As long as you fill your lifters with oil during installation and bring them down to zero lash and then 1/2 to 1 more turns they should be perfect.You should never need to adjust them again for life.No manuals ever tell you to adjust them with the engine running.Most boat engine you can't even do that because you can't remove the valve cover due to the exhaust manifold.I'm sure Mercury and all car manufactures never set them running from the factory.I can't recall ever seeing any problems with a "static cold valve adjustment".

Well, I'm sorry too, but you're entitled to your opinion, True, static adjustment is fine if it's done right but, I've heard of inexperienced people tightening them too tight at times, because they can't tell where zero lash is, or adjust them for Cyl #6, while on Cyl #1, or vice versa, or maybe your vibration damper marks are a little off, and it creates havoc A new factory engine with perfect tolerances, & clearances, being set on a bench is a lot different then adjusting them in your back yard on a used engine. Set for life, I don't think so, just overrev your engine, by accident, or on purpose, and you'll be adjusting them again. Adjusting them while running is a common popular procedure, I don't know if it's in any service manual, or not? but I don't really care, it's a tried, & true, method that's been around for years used by those "old school" people like myself, and I happen to think it's more precise, so I'll continue to use it if, & when, I can. If the manual says to "Go, Jump off a bridge!" would you?

 

[P 0 P E Y E]

Re: Timing Problems

Hope you get er going and get back on the water soon.

After you get it right, you will be an expert at it.

Good points about the lifter debate gents.

 

[picklenjim]

Re: Timing Problems

Well, I'm sorry too, but you're entitled to your opinion, True, static adjustment is fine if it's done right but, I've heard of inexperienced people tightening them too tight at times, because they can't tell where zero lash is, or adjust them for Cyl #6, while on Cyl #1, or vice versa, or maybe your vibration damper marks are a little off, and it creates havoc A new factory engine with perfect tolerances, & clearances, being set on a bench is a lot different then adjusting them in your back yard on a used engine. Set for life, I don't think so, just overrev your engine, by accident, or on purpose, and you'll be adjusting them again. Adjusting them while running is a common popular procedure, I don't know if it's in any service manual, or not? but I don't really care, it's a tried, & true, method that's been around for years used by those "old school" people like myself, and I happen to think it's more precise, so I'll continue to use it if, & when, I can. If the manual says to "Go, Jump off a bridge!" would you?

I agree with what you said"if it's done right".When building a motor that's the only way any thing should be done.I adjust them and put on the valve covers before I put on the intake so I know exactly where zero lash is.However if inexperienced people can't find zero lash and then static adjust them then they aren't going to be able to find zero lash and adjust them running either.I would think an inexperienced person could get in a lot more trouble trying to adjust them running besides the mess it makes.I did it 40 years ago when I was a dumb f_____ kid and didn't know any better.I would never do it like that again.So you can teach an old dog new tricks.And I would hope our factories would have enough quality control to put the timing marks on a vibration damper correctly.Bottom line an inexperienced person shouldn't be adjusting valves without an experienced helper.

 

[MikDee]

Re: Timing Problems

I agree with what you said"if it's done right".When building a motor that's the only way any thing should be done.I adjust them and put on the valve covers before I put on the intake so I know exactly where zero lash is.However if inexperienced people can't find zero lash and then static adjust them then they aren't going to be able to find zero lash and adjust them running either.I would think an inexperienced person could get in a lot more trouble trying to adjust them running besides the mess it makes.I did it 40 years ago when I was a dumb f_____ kid and didn't know any better.I would never do it like that again.So you can teach an old dog new tricks.And I would hope our factories would have enough quality control to put the timing marks on a vibration damper correctly.Bottom line an inexperienced person shouldn't be adjusting valves without an experienced helper.

When building, or modding, an engine I use the cold static adjustment to zero lash.

Aha!, but once I get it started, I find it quicker, easier, and safer to do the final adjustment when running, because all the parts are at normal operating temperature, and settling into place. I can hear the ticking well, and isolate each lifter as I slowly snug it down to zero lash, once I've done them all on one side, I just go back, & slowly dial in my 1/2 turn down setting, and then onto the other side to set them, and I'm Done, no muss, no fuss! And I KNOW what I've got!

You can't blame our factories for old worn used engine parts, or worn balancers that have spun the timing mark, then how do you adjust the valves? or how do you know the damper timing mark is not lying to you?

45yrs ago, I got my first taste of how to adjust valves, when the stock hydraulic camshaft just snapped in my 62' Impala SS 327/300hp with easy driving, & only about 40k miles on it and Silly me, I decided to get a soild lifter Duntov 2 Corvette cam, & lifters, from Chevy. I was told to adjust them running, because back then, I don't know if there was any other procedure to do it? Did you ever try to adjust solid lifters on a running engine with a feeler gauge? It's no fun! But, I got real good at it, because I was doing it every two weeks or less, because I beat the carp out of that car, being young, & dumb and it held up fantastically,,, Until I sold it a few yrs later, and got my price!
Anyway, adjusting hydraulic lifters when running, is childs play to me now

 

[picklenjim]

Re: Timing Problems

Bet you wish you had that 62' now!!!!

 

[MikDee]

Re: Timing Problems

Bet you wish you had that 62' now!!!!

I sure do! and the "super rare" 63' Plymouth Sport Fury 426 Ramcharger Auto. (limited edition) Track only! or, a clean 65' Chevelle SS 283 4bbl auto Convertible, or the "rare" 66' Grand Prix 389 4bbl 3spd Hurst edition, or the "rare" 75' Chevy Nova SS 350 4spd hatchback, or the pristine 74' Grand Am 400 4bbl auto, among some more other interesting vehicles

To the original poster, if you drop the Distributor in, then take it out just high enough till it comes off the gear, you can turn the rotor clockwise 1 notch at a time, and it will drop in, anyplace you want it

 

[P 0 P E Y E]

Re: Timing Problems

426 wedge.....now that was s a whole shot machine.

I was in the class just after you but your post brought me back to the days of gas tires and oil.....I thank you for that nostalgic flashback.

 

[cr2k]

Re: Timing Problems

OK here's my 2 cents worth. When you pull the distributor it will rotate counterclockwise because the drive gear is not straight but angled.

SO when you put it back in you must start about one half way back to the last cyl. position or a smidge more counterclockwise from where you want it to be. Then when it goes in it will be right and (if nothing was moved) will fall right back in to the oil pump drive slot and all the way down on the block.

Someone touched on this in a post but I think this may be your problem.