TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

[E_Man]

I'm just dropping the boat at the beach and noticed this. Any feedback would be appreciated! Just loaded another pic, its moist not dripping.

 

[salty87]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

don't forget your jackets. that looks pretty bad. hard to tell but looks like foam....yikes

 

[emoney]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Probably better to post a "less zoomed up" picture. I imagine it takes on water? Obviously, if it does, don't use it.

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

hard to tell. Where is it on the boat?

 

[E_Man]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Bottom-side chine

 

[airdvr1227]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Hope you have a good bilge pump.

 

[Stamey]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

WEAR your life jacket.

Chris

 

[Beefer]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Another reason I don't beach my boat. Make sure you have good PFDs, an EPIRB, a functioning VHF, and a liferaft on your next outing.

But seriously, that looks like it hurt! Time to call in an expert fiberglass repair guy and get it fixed right before you use it again. Water has been, and will continue to get in there, and cause additional damage. If you live in an area where it freezes (read as; not Florida), you'll have even more problems next year when the water trapped in there freezes and expands. I wouldn't use the boat until it's repaired, personally.

 

[Fishing Dude too]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Get out the fiberglass. You'll need it

 

[E_Man]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Thanks for all the replies. I just got back home and looked at the crack again. I noticed that about 50ml to 100ml of water leaked out an hour after parking the trailer. I took a screwdriver to gently assess the damage. As I said earlier the crack is rather moist from the outside and so I was able to insert the screwdriver about 5/8 of an inch inside. I gently twisted the flathead a little to see if any water would leak when I expanded/opened the crack ? it didn?t. I also noticed that there is another layer of hard fiberglass (?) above the crack when I inserted the screwdriver. Is this true? I understand that Sea Rays manufactured around the 90?s have several layers of fiberglass in case something like this happens. The very last thing I want to do is have to tear up the floors and refoam, please tell me this is not the case!

I have done fiberglass work a few times in the past so I know more or less what needs to be done. In the past I have patched the keel (crack under waterline) of my much smaller 14ft boat with fiberglass only, and while it held perfectly for years, I want to make sure I repair this one properly.

Assuming that there is no trapped water above the crack, does anyone know what needs to be done *from the outside* to repair this? Since it?s on the bottom/side of the boat (under the waterline) would you say epoxy then gelcoat or fiberglass then gelcoat? Again, the crack is on the bottom-right chine, between the keel and the main chine (side) of the vessel.

Any productive/useful responses would be appreciated. Thanks again.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

It would be helpful if a picture from further back was furnished. Having said that, fiberglass is a fusion of resin and spun glass fabric. The type of fabric is dependent on the amount and type repair that must be made.

The bonding agent, either resin or epoxy, is dependent on what was used originally and what you want to use. Epoxy will adhere to either surface, resin will not bond to epoxy. (Or is it the other way around?!.)

So if in doubt use epoxy. I think resin would be fine to use. My suggestions are based on resin being used, I have no experience with epoxy.

In any case you must prepare the area the same, and that means removing all damaged, wet or cracked substrate, until firm clean fiberglass is exposed to an area at least 2", but 6 would be better, around the damaged area. This will help achieve a smooth surface, the more layers the larger the taper.

Use course sandpaper and taper the edges. Cut several pieces of glass starting with one just large enough to cover the crack, with each succeeding piece a little larger than the last. Alternate between woven roven and chopped mat for strength.

Depending on the overall size of the resulting hole, which will be much larger than the apparent damage, the number of layers of glass exposed should be matched with repair glass.

The last glass should be chopped mat then cover the repair with Saran Wrap for a smooth finish. If you must shape the surface to match the chine, use cardboard as a mold (prepared in advance), taped into place.

If a lot of layers are needed, or if the pieces are large they may not stay in place (when using resin) so do the work in stages, minimum of 2 layers at a time.

There will be others chiming in to add or correct my suggestions, so be sure to select from the instructions that work best for you.

 

[E_Man]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Bob, thank you very much for taking the time to write that productive post. I will try to post another picture showing a larger area. I just spoke to a guy who used to do fiberglass boat work for many many years, and he suggested (without seeing the issue) that after thoroughly drying it all up I can inject the resin inside to avoid opening it up completely and then gelcoat it to complete. I know its a rather peculiar idea, and its just something to think about.

Does anyone else have constructive input?

Also, can anyone confirm that what I am hitting when inserting the screwdriver 5/8 inch inside is another layer of fiberglass rather than wood? The boat is a Sea Ray 21ft 1989 I/O board

 

[TerryMSU]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

I can't speak for your specific case, but years ago, Hobie Cats (and I assume Hobie power boats) were constructed by spraying a layer of gel coat into the mold, followed by a layer of foam, followed by another layer of glass. Thus from the outside, you would have seen gel coat, glass, foam, and then glass. So yes, it is possible that you are looking at a layer of glass. Unfortunately, it is also possible that this is wood. Run a small drill bit about a 16th inch ito it. What do you get back out? Glass or wood shavings? You may need to look at the shavings under some magnification.

BTW, I punched thru the outer layar of gel coat and glass on my boat in a race. I covered it with duct tape and finished the race series (dead last). Later I eventually filled the hole with duraglass and then had it shot with gel coat. Never had any issues with that patch, although I did have problems with the top of the hulls delaminating.

TerryMSU

 

[NYBo]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

I do believe your hull is a fiberglass-foam-fiberglass sandwich. The biggest problem is how long the boat was in the water after the damage occurred, which will determine how much water got in. Wet foam doesn't dry out easily, and when the only opening to the air is that crack, you've got a real problem trying to get the water out. Ironically, a cheaper hull without a core would be much easier to repair.

After determining the foam isn't saturated: I wouldn't fill the void with straight polyester resin or epoxy. I would mix up a slurry of sorts, using resin/epoxy and fiberglass. Even fiberglass house insulation would work to increase the strength of the goop.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Ok, the operative phrase here is "used to". I would never permit someone to repair a boat I had my family on in this manner.

I may be overly cautious, but a crack that penetrates the hull such as you have, at the chine no less, is under stress and flexes with the movement of the boat. A half-a** repair can have terrible results at the worst opportune time.

If you are foam cored, the repair is not as simple, nor do I have experience in this situation. However, filler is filler, in small doses it is fine for what it does, but it can be brittle, even glass infused. I would not use it in a structural area or as a shortcut to avoid a proper repair.

There are numerous methods that can be used to "repair" a damaged area of a boat. Some last longer than others, but the only one that lasts for the life of the boat, is the one that is done right. You have to decide if you are willing to take a shortcut that could have catastrophic results in the future.

This may sound over blown and exaggerated but without the additional pictures and complete information, I feel comfortable being cautious.

 

[oops!]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

rays dont use a foam or balsa core.

that is a thru hull penetration.....every time you take the boat out,,,,you are getting the foam wet.
the foam is the only thing that is keeping a major flood from rushing in.

you can repair this by your self.
if you choose to....start a thread in the restoration section (dry dock) and we can walk you right thru this repair.

btw.....in the mid 90's ray went to ve resins....you can use poly on ve.
no boat mass produced uses epoxy as a base to glass.
if you use epoxy....you will have to paint the area...gellcoat will not bond with epoxy.
i prefer gellcoat over paint any time gellcoat is many times stronger than paint

 

[jonesg]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

rays dont use a foam or balsa core.

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/searay_balsa_core_bottoms.htm

They stopped doing it.

 

[jonesg]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

Thanks for all the replies. I just got back home and looked at the crack again. I noticed that about 50ml to 100ml of water leaked out an hour after parking the trailer. I took a screwdriver to gently assess the damage. As I said earlier the crack is rather moist from the outside and so I was able to insert the screwdriver about 5/8 of an inch inside. I gently twisted the flathead a little to see if any water would leak when I expanded/opened the crack ? it didn?t. I also noticed that there is another layer of hard fiberglass (?) above the crack when I inserted the screwdriver. Is this true? I understand that Sea Rays manufactured around the 90?s have several layers of fiberglass in case something like this happens. The very last thing I want to do is have to tear up the floors and refoam, please tell me this is not the case!

I have done fiberglass work a few times in the past so I know more or less what needs to be done. In the past I have patched the keel (crack under waterline) of my much smaller 14ft boat with fiberglass only, and while it held perfectly for years, I want to make sure I repair this one properly.

Assuming that there is no trapped water above the crack, does anyone know what needs to be done *from the outside* to repair this? Since it?s on the bottom/side of the boat (under the waterline) would you say epoxy then gelcoat or fiberglass then gelcoat? Again, the crack is on the bottom-right chine, between the keel and the main chine (side) of the vessel.

Any productive/useful responses would be appreciated. Thanks again.

Its a hole, not a crack.
I'd tear the boat apart and do it right, internally.
but , if you're not into a project you may just want to put a bandaid patch on it.

 

[oops!]

Re: TIME SENSITIVE: How bad is this crack?

http://www.yachtsurvey.com/searay_balsa_core_bottoms.htm

They stopped doing it.

sorry jonsey....you are correct.
the hole is obviously in a smaller boat //// as you know, we usaually dont get questions about the bigger stuff, as the owners of yachts just get the dealers to come out

 

[E_Man]

Pics included!

Pics included!

Well, I went out today and started working on the boat to get a better idea of whats going on. I took a flathead screwdriver and slowly took out the fiberglass in the middle of the crack so that I can assess whats going on inside. As I took out the fiberglass, I got to the foam. At first I was upset that the foam was practically right there but after taking out about an inch of wet foam, the rest was bone dry! I was really happy that it didn't get as far as it could have - I guess this is because I only had a hair-line crack where the water was slowly seeping in. I was also able to see my Stringer to the side. I poked the stringer with the screwdriver to see if it was soft or hard - it was rock hard and fully covered in fiberglass.

Since the Keel of the boat is significantly lower than the strake where the crack is, my only concern now is getting any excess water out of there. Does anyone have any ideas? I can only think of jacking/tilting the trailer a bit on one side only to see if any water comes out and use a Shop-vac first to pull water out, then air it dry with a blower. I also understand that there are compounds I can put to attract the water towards the opening?

Any productive/constructive posts are appreciated.