Tilt pump on an 888***New Info***

[Boomyal]

The starter issue has been solved. Was able to turn it over, in a few short bursts, to get the oil pressure up an some oil freshly distributed thru the engine for the coming winter.

Once finished with that I went to raise the outdrive back up off the ground. I had just lowered it a couple of days ago. When I hit the two top buttons, all a got was a click. I then hit the down button again and the pump started right up.

I did not have enough time to pursue this today but I am hoping that it is simply a matter of cleaning the connections on the tilt pump solenoid.

Does this sound likely or might it be something more serious.

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Probably just a bad solenoid on the pump. Does your pump have 1 or 2 solenoids on it.

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Might want to download this manual to your computer as well. Give you something to read all winter. http://www.4shared.com/office/WwMmi_rD/02__Eng__Drives_74-77.html?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

I down loaded that Don, thanks! As I scanned it, I noticed that section 8 was a propeller chart. I had wanted to check on proper propellers for this boat anyway. There is no detail listed (no charts, etc) under the Section 8 title page. It goes right on to section 9. Am I missing something.

I have to check on whether mine has one or two tilt solenoids.

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

That chart never was there, didn't mean much anyway. You can get better advise from the prop forum or directly from the Merc site.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Back to the tilt/trim pump. I am confused and the factory wiring diagram does not help. There are two attachments to the pivot points of the outdrive. Both round and plastic. In trying to diagnose my no lift issue, I reached under the outdrive and the wires for right device literally disintegrated into my hand. I have never seen actual wire strands so deteriorated.

I removed the right device and it appears to be a dummy. There are no active or metallic elements on the underside of this disc. The wire eye mounting screws screw into plastic and no continuity can be detected between these screws with the disc in any position. This may have been a dummy disc for a gauge that I do not have. The wires for that dummy literally disintegrated as I touched them. I believe that the tilt limit switch must be on the left side. Is this the case? If so, those wires go thru the transom and plug into the purple and blue leads that disappear into the harness that goes forward to the three switch tilt/trim switch on the dash. Virtually every wire that came thru the transom dissolved in my hand as I touched them. Weird!

Bottom line: I used jumpers to bypass the limit switch, purple and blue jumpered together (trying to lower the outdrive). No effect. The pump still ran when pushing the bottom down button, but just got the solenoid click when hitting the middle and upper buttons together. I then pulled the the front harness connector off the solenoid assembly and used jumpers to reverse the connections. I then hit the down button and the pump ran and the outdrive rose. Mission one accomplished. Get the outdrive out of the dirt for the coming winter.

Further tests showed that the connection point, on the solenoid, for the the 'up power wire' to the motor (blue wire) received no juice when you hit the two up buttons (solenoid would just click). This was all with the tilt sensor leads jumpered.

Here is my conclusion. The solenoid is bad.

Here is my question. How in heavens name do you run new wires from the tilt limit switch, thru the transom. I believe that there was also the two wire wires going thru the same hole that were for the dummy cap on the right side of the outdrive. So a total of two pairs of wires went back thru the transom. I will only need to run one pair but I could not see how that might be accomplished or what kind of interface the wires used to pass thru the transom. Seems that if one is not careful, that could be a point of leakage.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

>bump<

 

[achris]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

...Here is my question. How in heavens name do you run new wires from the tilt limit switch, thru the transom. I believe that there was also the two wire wires going thru the same hole that were for the dummy cap on the right side of the outdrive. So a total of two pairs of wires went back thru the transom. I will only need to run one pair but I could not see how that might be accomplished or what kind of interface the wires used to pass thru the transom. Seems that if one is not careful, that could be a point of leakage.

The limit and gauge senders are supplied as a kit, complete with the wires attached. Each pair of wires has a 'half seal' molded on it. Together they form a cone type seal, which is set in the transom housing, and held in place by a plate with a couple of 1/4" screws (I think), which are a pita to get in and out. I have a snapper that I heated and bent to the right shape to make the job easier. It's still a pita. Unfortunately you can't get the switches or wires separately, they came as a (expensive) kit. part #-805320A1

Chris...........

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

A search for that part number on iboats produces nothing. I also tried 'trim limit switch' to no avail.

EDIT: I did find this part on iboats, as #805320A03. It is a Sierra part. Are there any recommendations between this Sierra part and a Mercruiser part? It is a shame that you have to buy both the tilt limit and OD position sensor when you do not even have a position gauge. Grrr

It also appears that you have to tear the whole outdrive and gimbal housing out? If so, I guess boots should be replaced at the same time. Is there any brand choices on the boots and would one be better quality than the other? This is surely the case with a lot of other rubber products.


btw, once again, I have never seen electrical wire strands so deteriorated that the wire, let alone the insulation, practically turns to dust when you touch it. This was true for the wires in two different environments. One inside the transom, the other outside.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

A search for that part number on iboats produces nothing. I also tried 'trim limit switch' to no avail.

EDIT: I did find this part on iboats, as #805320A03. It is a Sierra part. Are there any recommendations between this Sierra part and a Mercruiser part? It is a shame that you have to buy both the tilt limit and OD position sensor when you do not even have a position gauge. Grrr

It also appears that you have to tear the whole outdrive and gimbal housing out? If so, I guess boots should be replaced at the same time. Is there any brand choices on the boots and would one be better quality than the other? This is surely the case with a lot of other rubber products.


btw, once again, I have never seen electrical wire strands so deteriorated that the wire, let alone the insulation, practically turns to dust when you touch it. This was true for the wires in two different environments. One inside the transom, the other outside.

Hi Boomer,... That right there is why I ignore 'em, 'n just leave the plastic housing on there for looks, 'n holdin' the grease in...

My ole tinbarge has billet aluminum powder coated covers,... No wirin',... No need....
Found 'em cheap on ebay, years ago...
The wirin' is by-passed, inside the transom, just hookin' the 2 wires together...

I trim by seat of the pants,...
If at the dock, or on the wagon, a couple steps aft, 'n I know where it is...

On the fleet I service, they only/ maybe get changed when the transom is serviced, as in replacin' All the rubber parts, 'n the lower shift cable...
As you can see, ya gotta go Deep, for a couple of chintzy rotten wires...
May as well do it All while yer in there...

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

You must have the original wires on the old switch and sender. The wires did fall apart on the older ones, like the wiring on the old outboards. Just touch the stuff and the insulation falls off.

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Today, the first 8 hours were without TV or Internet service (Thank you Comcast) so was tinkering with colorizing wiring diagrams. I had this one handy from the service manual.

View attachment Manual wiring 888.pdf

Then I went to work in Adobe Illustrator and got this.

View attachment My 888 wiring.pdf

Since it's your engine, have at it. I also got to watch the last 60 laps of Dega.:facepalm:

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Thanks bond-o. I'll sleep better tonight knowin' that I do not have to tear the whole rear end off the old scow. I assume that by 'hookin' the two wires together, you mean the purple and blue wires/connectors that come out of the tilt/trim harness just prior to the plug at the base of the tilt solenoid? All that I had plugged into those connecters were two short disintegrating wire stubs.

The boots and everything else do look in fine fettle, at least today. Whilst I was rootin' around in there I also noticed that I have the old shift cable with the nut in the front, but it shifts just fine.

Don, you are the arteest, for sure. Can you do that with the trim/tilt wiring diagram? I am still working on the 'no up" situation and am assuming at this point it is the solenoid even though I am not sure how it functions in terms of working for 'down' but not for 'up'.

 

[achris]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Thanks bond-o. I'll sleep better tonight knowin' that I do not have to tear the whole rear end off the old scow. I assume that by 'hookin' the two wires together, you mean the purple and blue wires/connectors that come out of the tilt/trim harness just prior to the plug at the base of the tilt solenoid? All that I had plugged into those connecters were two short disintegrating wire stubs.

The boots and everything else do look in fine fettle, at least today. Whilst I was rootin' around in there I also noticed that I have the old shift cable with the nut in the front, but it shifts just fine.

Don, you are the arteest, for sure. Can you do that with the trim/tilt wiring diagram? I am still working on the 'no up" situation and am assuming at this point it is the solenoid even though I am not sure how it functions in terms of working for 'down' but not for 'up'.

There is no solenoid for DOWN, all the power goes right through the switches on the dash...

Chris......

Here's your trim wiring in glorious colour...

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Thanks for the color, Chris. Your description of the power routing, for the down position, kind of clears things up. I can see that now in the wiring diagram. I couldn't see how a solenoid could act for both directions. That pretty much cements Don's earlier conjecture that it is a bad solenoid (which only clicks) when calling for 'OD up'.

What that also means is that when I reversed the wires to get the drive up out of the dirt, I was sending all that juice thru the switch. Good thing I only did it once, huh?

On a slightly different subject, I have a huge mass of excess wires, all rat's nested up around the trim/tilt pump. Some of it is in the sheath/harness that goes up to the dash and some of it is wiring that goes between the starter solenoid and the tilt solenoid. As I abhor messy wiring, is there any reason that I cannot shorten all those wires, using good soldered eyelet or butt connecters?

 

[achris]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Thanks for the color, Chris. Your description of the power routing, for the down position, kind of clears things up. I can see that now in the wiring diagram. I couldn't see how a solenoid could act for both directions. That pretty much cements Don's earlier conjecture that it is a bad solenoid (which only clicks) when calling for 'OD up'.

That's what I thought when I first saw what you did... (Didn't realise you don't have a manual.... Just for you, here's a merc manual -> https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B1TAvwZ3TjhfOTI5OTMyZTMtNDNkZi00MDAyLWE5MTYtMTI5N2MyNDM3NjZm)

What that also means is that when I reversed the wires to get the drive up out of the dirt, I was sending all that juice thru the switch. Good thing I only did it once, huh?

Yes, and ah huh....

On a slightly different subject, I have a huge mass of excess wires, all rat's nested up around the trim/tilt pump. Some of it is in the sheath/harness that goes up to the dash and some of it is wiring that goes between the starter solenoid and the tilt solenoid. As I abhor messy wiring, is there any reason that I cannot shorten all those wires, using good soldered eyelet or butt connecters?

You and me both!!! Shorten to your heart's content. Just make sure the joints are water proof. I use adhesive lined heat-shrink tubing.

Chris.......

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Having trouble identifying the proper trim/tilt pump solenoid. Napa has two to choose from but does not identify their application:

Napa 18-5802 replaces Merc 65057A1, T1
Napa 18-5836 replaces Merc 25661, 25661 1

These solenoids look identical but seemingly have different internal wiring.

I tried looking on iboats but it seems they are as vague about what fits what.

I think the starter solenoid for this Ford setup looks the same as the trim/tilt solenoid but may be different internally.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

 

[Don S]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

The 18-5836 is the one you want for the trim, the 18-5802 is the one you use for your starter that does not have a starter solenoid.

These solenoids look identical but seemingly have different internal wiring.

They are different inside, and if you tried to use the 802 in place of the 836 you would blow fuses.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

The 18-5836 is the one you want for the trim, the 18-5802 is the one you use for your starter that does not have a starter solenoid.


They are different inside, and if you tried to use the 802 in place of the 836 you would blow fuses.

Thanks Don.
Thanks Chris.
Thanks bond-o

 

[mrdjflores]

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

Re: Tilt pump on an 888

glad i stopped by on this one....i was going to be looking for those wiring diagrams soon...
thanks