Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

biggest issue I ever had with a force was they were mostly on entry level boats that the owners had no clue and were usually cash strapped so the maint was neglected. that was a draw back to a force, the maint is rather excessive but must be done or they die.<br />the design of the block assy really did not change since it was a chysler, the piston cracking issue was usually caused by the screens in the puddle drains becoming clooged causing a rich condition. most those motors ned a head gasket every 3 yeras or they blow for no apperent reason, the cooling system needs a tuneup every year as they DO NOT tolerate overheating nor hotspots.<br />in the salt pond if the drive shaft splines were not greased every year they tended to stick or wear out rapidly.<br /> the fuel pumps had rather large diaphrams and tended to fail, an issue they had even with the later merc square pumps.<br />the merc forces suffered from the same stator failures the merc did. the red stator kit took care of it.<br />the gearcase was marginal and does not like old oil. when you change it the oil coming out should be as clean as the oil going in, if its not shorten up the change schedule.<br />the bushings on the shift transfer bellcrank wore out every couple years and if run worn 2 dollars worth of bushings would cause 802 dollars worth of gearcase repairs,<br /> while these motors were simple and cheap they did not go well with an entry level owner.<br />but the 3 normal causes of piston ring coking were operator error in fuel mix,puddle drain maint and overpropping.
 

noshelter

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 14, 2002
Messages
87
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Great advice, thanks guys. I've put in an offer of $4500, down from $5500. See what he says. I have had the engine looked at it and it fires fine and runs solid. There is no smoke coming from the exhaust and it looks to be in top shape.<br /><br />He's also throwing in a whackload of goodies, ski bar, ski rope, skis, rod holders, riggers, 2 extra props, fire extinguisher, anchor, anchor chain, poly, and a 4-piece cover.<br /><br /><br />SSS
 

rodbolt

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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

N_F_A<br /> its supposed to smoke.<br /> its a two stroke carbed motor.<br />is this motor oil injected? <br /> I cant remember the exact year of introduction but in 1990 it could be a merc version.<br /> but like I said, with meticulous maint they will last a fair amount of time.<br /> we know its atwo stroke because force was never produced as a four stroke and the force line was dropped a year or so ago. wasnt dropped because it was a bad motor or sales were low it was dropped, along with most the rest of merc 2 strokes, due to EPA standards.<br />would have cost to much to redesign them to reduce emissions.
 

noshelter

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Jun 14, 2002
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87
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Rod, no it's not oil injected. It's a 50:1 pre-mix. I think by "not smoking", I meant that it runs smooth and idles properly. Currently I have a 34hp Johnson 2-stroke and that smokes just as well. <br /><br />I didn't know that Force only made 2-stroke engines. <br /><br /><br />SSS
 

rodbolt

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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

the tree goes chysler till the late seventies early 80's US marine from then till the early 90's then it was bought by bruswick. cant remember the dates but the years are close.in the way of design changes. the ign system changed to the merc setup when brunswick bought it, eventually the got a "dual" exhaust then a through hub to make all the props compatible with mercs in the ame range, they got oil injection by the mid ninties and a few other minor changes by the late ninties, there are tons out there but they are maint intensive and will readily burn a piston if its not done. problem is most of it is not in the manual. you just have to rely on good techs and spend cash.<br /> but overall they were inexpensive and decent moptors just not suited to entry level boaters who had the package financed to the hilt and could barely afford the payments much less the maint. after about 30 years of doing this I have seen this, show me a 18ft maxum or bayliner with a 3.0 merc at a boat show price with financeing and ill show you a junk motor in 4 years.<br />not because its a bad package but because the first time buyer has a wife,2 kids 2 cars a house payment a riding mower payment association dues and 5 credit cards and now a boat payment, aint no money left to maintain the package so it gets run till something fails.<br />its just how it is.
 

noshelter

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Jun 14, 2002
Messages
87
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

That's a great analogy Rod, thanks. As I don't have a family and only one monthly payment, I expect to maintain this package as best I can. From what I understand, the most important thing to consider is the type of oil used. The best oil I can use, despite the price will pay off huge dividends in the long run. Also, consistent flushing of it when in the salt, etc. Any other tips to consider, advice to add?<br /><br /><br />SSS
 

eurolarva

Rear Admiral
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Jun 24, 2003
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4,182
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Parts are becoming scarce. Be an active bidder on ebay. Lots of stuff there. Lots of junk too. Get good service manuals and do a lot of searchs here on iboats. Read as many threads that Roscoe has responded to. Keep on the flushing and make sure you change the impeller every other year. Keep carbs burning slightly rich. Never run gas lines dry unless using a fogging oil for winterizing.
 

noshelter

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Jun 14, 2002
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Do you have a Force Euro? If so, what other monthly, yearly types of maintenance do you do? <br /><br /><br />SSS
 

roscoe

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Oct 30, 2002
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21,694
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Not a great fan of these motors from '90-'91.<br />They used the old cd ignition with the blue cd units and coils.<br />This must be the most troublesome ignition system out there.<br />And expensive to fix.<br /><br />Later models were switched over to Mercury's Thunderbolt ignition, which has a better track record, but not perfect.<br /><br />CARDNUT- Force 75hp started in 1996.<br />Serial Number: 0E177686 Model Number: H075412SD<br />(should be 1996) any Merc dealer should be able to tell you.
 

22trophy

Seaman
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Aug 2, 2003
Messages
54
Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

1999 120hp force, 500 hrs salt water use. Strong like bull! No problems.
 

noshelter

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Jun 14, 2002
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

The engine I'm getting was a 1990 120hp, and was rebuilt in 1997. Do you think this will effect the ignition? I guess I need to go and talk to the mechanic who did it, or hope there will be receipts.<br /><br />Just not sure what a "rebuild" actually consists of.<br /><br /><br />SSS
 

noshelter

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Jun 14, 2002
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Bump, just looking for any thoughts on this engine being rebuilt, good / bad thoughts, any advice on anything that hasn't been discussed. Things to consider, look at, question, etc. Thanks,<br /><br /><br />SSS
 

noshelter

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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Just an update guys, I've been talking with the owner of the boat, and I asked him about what the fuel to oil ratio. My last engine was a 2-stroke and I'm familiar with the mixing, etc etc, but just looking at ideas on the best oil to use, what do you suggest, should I always keep it 50:1, stuff like that. I've pasted his response, does it sound about right, from your experiences? Just looking for more and more opinions, I really want to maintain this engine as best as I can to get the best performance out of it. Thanks.<br /><br />-------------------------------------------<br /><br />I use Mercury premium gear oil in the leg ALWAYS (not the regular). This<br />stuff is 16$/litre but worth it I think. I changed the oil just<br />recently - so feel free to check it, but doesn't need replacing. I try<br />to always change it at the beginning of EACH year - it's the best $20<br />you'll spend!<br /><br />I TRY to always use mercury premium 2 stroke oil...again twice the <br />price of regular (Shell, Penzoil, other) 2 stroke oil but the guy at Alouette<br />Marine swears by it and actually strongly recommends against using<br />anything but an outboard company name brand (Merc, Johnson etc) oil.<br /><br />There have been times where I didn't have a choice - but I usually buy<br />the 8 or 10 litre container at the beginning of the year - it's like<br />80$/container (again not cheap) and this lasts for a good chunk of the<br />season. It's really a personal choice thing (unless you talk to the <br />guy<br />from Alouette Marine - in which case he'll convince you it's mandatory).<br /><br />Finally, I've never heard of a synthetic oil for 2 stroke engines<br />(doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, just never heard...). <br /><br />Note this is a premix system right - you mix the oil with the fuel as you fuel up<br />(50:1 gas to oil). So you need ~2 litres of oil for each 100 litres of fuel (close<br />to a full fill up). Make sense...<br /><br />I always use premium fuel...yes once again, not cheap (110 litre tank).<br /><br />NOTE: Never use alcohol (ethanol and the like) enriched fuel - forgot<br />the details - but NOT GOOD for 2-stroke engines. So no Mohawk gas!<br />Chevron has 94 octane - if I have my choice I go there. If not, most<br />other stations offer 92 octane as their premium. Need high octane to<br />prevent pre-ignition in high HP 2-stoke engines due to high compression<br />(so I'm told). Makes sense to me though and I always make sure to use<br />it.<br /><br />-----------------------------------<br /><br /><br />SSS
 

eurolarva

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Jun 24, 2003
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Sounds like the guy took care of it. I disagree on a few points. High octane gas for a two stroke is a waste of money and because of combustion I believe it is more prone to carbon deposits. The second point is that the gear oil should always be changed at the end of the season instead of the begining of the season. Reason being is if you loose a seal and the lower unit fills up with water in a climate below zero you will crack the lower unit. In climates above freezing having water covering gears is not a good idea.
 

noshelter

Petty Officer 3rd Class
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Jun 14, 2002
Messages
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Re: Thoughts / Experiences with a Force

Noted Euro, great points. Thanks. I don't know how to change the gear oil and I'm sure I'll be asking at the end of the season.<br /><br /><br />SSS
 
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