Theoretical GCWR question.

[sutor623]

So fellas I have a question for you guys. I have a 2011 AWD Honda CRV . I pull my 16? Starcraft with 75hp Evinrude and 2012 galvanized Load Rite trailer. The load comes in just under 1500lbs. The CRV pulls the boat beautifully. It pulls the boat right up the boat ramp without any issues. It has never even slipped into all wheel drive going up the ramp, not once! Gets between 18-20MPG towing. All in all I am very pleased with it.

But I do have a question. More of a food for thought kind of thing, as well as for future reference.

2011 Honda CRV

Curb Weight: 3500lbs.
GVWR: 4560
Tow Cap.: 1500
GCWR: 6060
GAWR (Front): 2310
GAWR (Rear): 2290

So, total cargo capacity is 1060lbs. Tow rating is 1500lbs. This means that the entire load this thing can carry up the road is 2560lbs.

Is there any grey area here? Obviously you do not want to exceed the tire or axle rating, but what happens if you have 1700lbs on the trailer, and 600lbs. of passengers and cargo in the vehicle? Now your Gross Combined Weight is 5800lbs, which is still under the required 6060lbs. This is okay no? I think that the tow rating is more of a guideline rather than a requirement, whereas the GCWR and GAWR is the actual legally enforceable measurement.

Just wondering

 

[rallyart]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

None of them are legally enforceable measurements but you'd better have enough engineering background to argue that your numbers are better than the manufacturers if you get into a tort case. It's all grey area. You should know that your vehicle's curb weight is without fluids so a full tank of gas and other accessories you have added are all part of the load . If you can, just weigh it.
AWD makes the vehicle tow much better than a 2WD. Braking capability is a major factor in the safety of the load you carry. You just have to make your own decision. Internet experts are of limited value, except that if you ask enough opinions someone will give you the answer you want.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

So, you've figured your GCW at 5800#, give or take 100#.

If your vehicles GCWR is truly 6060#, your fine. Just.

Legally enforceable? You don't want to open that door. Of course, it will only be opened if there is an incident.

I NEVER guess at what stuff weighs unless it is quite obvious it is well below the capacity; e.g.; 12' Aluminum boat behind a 1/2 ton pick up.

WEIGH IT, as you would tow it. Most moving companies have scales that will weigh your stuiff for a nominal charge. I have found their scales to be quite accurate as they charge by weight/mile.

I've been surprised a couple times. Finding out a boat was waterlogged and carrying a bunch of extra weight around.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

Virginia does have GCVW laws, so you need to stay below 6060 to stay legal. 5800 is below 6060 so you have no worries.

If you are ever sued, let your liability insurance provider worry about the tort aspects, there's no way they'd ever let you take the stand as a car loading expert in a court case anyway.

 

[bigdee]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

Stop trying to split hairs and enjoy your boat!!

 

[sutor623]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

First of all, I love you guys!! Such a nice wide array of answers.

Rally, the factory curb weight is 3300lbs. or so. When I weighed the vehicle without me in it, and a full tank of gas it was 3500lbs. (So when I said curb weight I guess I meant curb weight with fluids.) And I laughed at the comment about listening to enough opinions until you find the one you like.

Fleet, I agree. I have weighed everything, and of course they all weighed more than I expected.

Mischeif, thanks! That was the most direct answer to my question.

And bigdee, I love splitting hairs!! But I have been enjoying my boat for quite some time also. Been using this rig for almost 3 years.

Oh and this really was a question for education. Me and the buddy I always go fishin with weighed up at the scale before a trip one morning and my Gross weight was 5500lbs. so I'm not asking you guys if I should tow a 2800lbs. 19' fiberglass boat with my small suv.

 

[Fleetwin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

There you go. You're at the max but not over, they way I see it.

Enjoy!

 

[Maclin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

My tow rig is rated at 7400 pounds tow capacity. I did the math on the GCWR as well, and with any more than about 10 gallons in the tank of it the rating will drop. I won't tell you how far it drops once I am actually sitting in it

 

[sutor623]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

My tow rig is rated at 7400 pounds tow capacity. I did the math on the GCWR as well, and with any more than about 10 gallons in the tank of it the rating will drop. I won't tell you how far it drops once I am actually sitting in it

Wow, that's interesting. So the manufacturing company milked every pound they could as far as towing capacity. (Obviously a marketing thing) If you dont mind, what type of truck is it? Just to be clear, you are saying the tow capacity drops as you add cargo right?

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

Virginia does have GCVW laws, so you need to stay below 6060 to stay legal. 5800 is below 6060 so you have no worries.

For a non-commercial vehicle/license holder? That would be a first, haven't heard of a state ever having any requirement like that.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

For a non-commercial vehicle/license holder? That would be a first, haven't heard of a state ever having any requirement like that.

Here's the text of the statute:

? 46.2-704. Prohibited operations; checking on weights; penalties.

A. No person shall operate or permit the operation of any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer for which the fee for registration is prescribed by ? 46.2-697 on any highway in the Commonwealth, under any of the following circumstances:

1. Without first having paid the registration fee hereinabove prescribed.

2. If, at the time of the operation, the gross weight of the vehicle or of the combination of vehicles of which it is a part, is in excess of the gross weight on the basis of which it is registered. In any case where a pickup truck is used in combination with another vehicle, operation shall be unlawful only if the combined gross weight exceeds the combined gross weight on the basis of which each vehicle is registered.

B. Any officer authorized to enforce the motor vehicle laws, having reason to believe that the gross weight of any motor vehicle, trailer, or semitrailer being operated on any highway in the Commonwealth exceeds that on the basis of which the vehicle is registered, may weigh the vehicle by whatever means the Superintendent may prescribe and the operator, or other person in possession of the vehicle, shall permit this weighing whenever requested by the officer.

C. Any person who violates any provision of this section or who operates or permits the operation of a trailer or semitrailer designed for the use of human beings as living quarters, on the highways in the Commonwealth without having first paid to the Commissioner the fee prescribed in subdivision 5 of subsection A of ? 46.2-694 is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

Good to know Mischief. That's some good info right there.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

I wonder if you could simply ask the trown cleark/DMV to increase the GVCW on the registration, and pay a little more to register the vehicle to avoid breaking this law? Seems like the point of the law is to collect registration revenue based on weight, not to ensure safety.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

In NH, where I live, the only law pertaining to load and safety for non-commercial vehicles is that the tire load cannot exceed the load limit printed on the side of any tire.

 

[sutor623]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

I hear that. I think it's absurd that you can pay a fee and get your gcwr increased. Like you said all about revenue and not safety.

 

[Mischief Managed]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

I hear that. I think it's absurd that you can pay a fee and get your gcwr increased. Like you said all about revenue and not safety.

That was speculation on my part, it may very well be written with safety in mind but with reference to registration fees included solely as a means to ensure easy enforcement.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

Wow, that's interesting. So the manufacturing company milked every pound they could as far as towing capacity. (Obviously a marketing thing) If you dont mind, what type of truck is it? Just to be clear, you are saying the tow capacity drops as you add cargo right?

Yes, as my Truck + Cargo goes past 5600 or so anything after that drops the available tow capacity. The 7400 is the rating for the frame/engine/brakes/gears etc. Shocking (not!) marketing tactic. There is always a competition to be able to claim highest tow capacity "in it's class" kind of thing.

Previously on another board we got into this topic heavily and began to look up everybody's rig, from FWD small cars to full tonner trucks, it was interesting. All of the smaller cars had a tow rating that could not actually be used if more than one person was in it, that kind of thing. As the capacities rose with larger vehicles there was more headroom so to speak, but still had to look at the GC to be sure the tow capacity could actually be used.

Mine is a 2005 Ram 1500 single cab 4x4 with 3.92 gears. I will put the formula here later as right now I cannot remember the exact numbers for each component except the stated tow capacity. I do remember the useable tow capacity is around 7000 pounds with the typical cargo I have.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

There is also the factor of GTW, or Gross Tongue Weight, that must be considered as it affects the GVWR. Many smaller vehicles are very sensitive to tongue weight especially with rear seat passengers or cargo in the equation.


Anyways, here are the ratings for my Truck as stated by the manufacturer

2005 dodge ram 1500 pickup 1500 ST, REGULAR CAB, 4WD, 6.25 FT Bed, 5-Speed Automatic 545RFE Transmission, 4.7L Magnum(R) V8 Engine:

With 3.92 Axle Ratio Axle Ratio You Can Tow 7400 lbs
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) = 6350 lbs
Payload = 1382 lbs
Curb Weight = 4968 lbs
Curb Weight Front/Rear = 2997 lbs/2997 lbs
GAWR Front/Rear = 3900 lbs/3900 lbs
Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) = 12500 lbs


I think my last trip to the dump showed me at 5600 or so tare weight, that would be almost full gas tank plus me (270). Subtract that from 12500 GCWR and the usable tow capacity is 6900 in that scenario. Plug in 700 pounds more cargo including tongue weight, up to the limit of the GVWR, and the available tow capacity so as not to exceed 12500 pounds is 6200.

So, in my case, a loaded truck weighing GVWR max allows for a max of 6200 pound tow load. Bare naked truck with light fuel load and a lightweight driver could go up to the 7400 max tow capacity.

 

[Maclin]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

I am almost 110% sure that all States have a weighing team and would enforce ther regulations if a trooper noticed something abnormal about any setup going down the road or if stopped. While there may be some safety factor in the MFG stated capacities it would still be prudent to make every effort stay inside the ratings. Tires, brakes, transmissions, engine heat would all be affected not to mention failing an inspection if that occurs.

 

[gm280]

Re: Theoretical GCWR question.

As with any weight issue, the more weight the harder it is to get it stopped. That would be my main concern. You brakes will need attention sooner then later if you do trailer a lot. It is amazing how just a 100 lbs can translate into thousands of pounds of energy during driving speeds so quickly. So be careful and drive with that knowledge while towing. When you get closer to your max towing capability, you will notice more pushing from the trailer while braking for sure.