The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

[alden135]

It is painfully apparent that the hippie teachers in the post WW2 public school system have done a fantastic job of changing the facts of history. So many on these forums truly believe that the Constitution calls for the supression of Chrisianity in public. The myth that the Constitution of the United States calls for the "seperation of church and state" is now taken as fact. I would encourage any with this opinion to actually READ the document.<br /><br />Our Constitution merely prevents the state from ESTABLISHING a state religion (amendment 1). NO WHERE does it call for the supression of it. Our founding fathers were Christians and used their faith to write the thing in the first place. <br /><br />I challenge anyone to prove this fact wrong. <br /><br />Anyone here with kids in the public schools knows (if they are paying attention) that they are getting little, if any info on the Constitution. Only the twisted gloss over that the leftists feel supports their agenda. <br /><br />The best way to take someones rights away is to keep them from knowing what they are in the first place.<br /><br />Do youself and your children a huge service and read the Constitution and Bill of Rights together. You may learn something.<br /><br /> http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyclopedia/entry/USConstTABLE

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Yep,<br /><br />Got a copy in my day planner, which NEVER leaves my side.<br /><br />I sometimes "pull it out" to AMAZE people. They have/had NO idea.

 

[Pony]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Oh Yeah alden I'll prove you wrong!!.......Oh wait, I can't do that because what you are saying makes complete sense.

 

[txswinner]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Alden, My liberal side says we probably should avoid a prayer, but a moment of silence to worship or not worship wins my vote. If my child had a Muslem teacher and she tried to get them to do the whole kneel to the east deal I would explode.<br /><br />I think that moment should be at every sporting event and so should the pledge of allegance. I know all about the added "under God" but it is still the pledge. To not recite or leave it out is wrong.

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

TXS,<br /><br />Get ready to EXPLODE.<br /><br />

If my child had a Muslem teacher and she tried to get them to do the whole kneel to the east deal I would explode.<br />

That is PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE.<br /><br />Bow ones head and say a prayer to the Christian God (in silence) and ALL the sensors go off. The principal will be in the room, in a flash, to escort the offender to the crucifiction room.

 

[wilkin250r]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

And how many of you feel the same way txswinner does? Would you feel comfortable with your teacher asking your child to kneel to the east, and say a little prayer to Allah?<br /><br />Thomas Jefferson said it best in his letter to the Danbury Babtists:<br /><br />"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society."<br /><br />You are correct, alden, that the Constitution does not expressly call out a separation of church and state, but that is indeed the implication. The state CANNOT promote one religion over another in any way, therefore the only alternative is to promote none of the religions at all.

 

[JB]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Many interpret the mandatory use of prayers and references to God in Government establishments and activities as defacto establishment of a state religion, Alden.<br /><br />As you point out, that is forbidden by our Constitution.

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Wilkin,<br /><br />You NAILED it. That was a LETTER, IT NEVER got into the constitution. Although our courts think it did. Thus, most Americans.<br /><br />However, the semblences of the thought got into the Constitution. Basically, the government should not favor one over the other. We are doing exactly that-today. As long as it's not Christianity-it's OK.<br /><br />I personally don't see it as a big deal, because it is written in Christian destiny. We know it's coming (the persecution) yet human nature keeps us fighting. My faith side fights, everyday, with my human side. I know I will be persecuted by unbelievers, I accept it.<br /><br />But, I'll go down with my clip empty.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

A letter deserves a speech in response:<br /><br />

Washington's Farewell Address 1796<br /><br />Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. <br /><br /><br />Citizens, by birth or choice, of a common country, that country has a right to concentrate your affections. The name of American, which belongs to you, in your national capacity, must always exalt the just pride of Patriotism, more than any appellation derived from local discriminations. With slight shades of difference, you have the same religion, manners, habits, and political principles. You have in a common cause fought and triumphed together; the Independence and Liberty you possess are the work of joint counsels, and joint efforts, of common dangers, sufferings, and successes.

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle. <br />

As long as it ain't Christianity-RIGHT???

 

[alden135]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Originally posted by wilkin250r:<br /> <br />Thomas Jefferson said it best in his letter to the Danbury Babtists:<br /><br />"Because religious belief, or non-belief, is such an important part of every person's life, freedom of religion affects every individual. State churches that use government power to support themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of the church tends to make the clergy unresponsive to the people and leads to corruption within religion. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society."<br /><br />You are correct, alden, that the Constitution does not expressly call out a separation of church and state, but that is indeed the implication. The state CANNOT promote one religion over another in any way, therefore the only alternative is to promote none of the religions at all.

Wilkin, I would argue that the Jefferson letter should be taken in context with the political/religious environment during the time it was written. Jefferson was merely opposing a state mandated religion as was in effect in England. As I believe DJ correctly stated, the letter was only that, a letter. It is not part of our constitution. It is I believe a good indicator of Jeffersons views at the time, however, it was not ratified by our leaders or ever put into the Constitution. There is a vehicle for it's inclusion should anyone want to try to add it in.<br /><br />txwinner,<br /> A moment of silence, or spoken prayer, should be acceptable, so long as the teacher is not leading it. There should not be a problem if a student want's to pray out loud. I don't know when the last time was you have been in a school hallway, but if has been within the last 20 years I'm sure you would agree that there is a lot more offensive language being used then some praying.

 

[alden135]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Amendment I<br />Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;......<br /><br />Just in case no one wants to look it up.

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Establishing and RESPECTING are two different things, as the constitution, so clearly to me, states.<br /><br />Ignoring and/or shunning has become the rule today.

 

[PW2]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

OK So what does that mean to you, Alden?<br /><br />Congress shall make no law...except if it's Christian?????????<br /><br />And DJ, if you've got a bunch of Buhddists, or Wiccans, or some other similar group invading the courts or the schools or some other government entity and trying to force their beliefs on you, I'd call the ACLU if you can't get them stopped any other way. That's what they are there for.

 

[Ralph 123]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

If they founded the country, set up the institutions, bled for it, it would be part of the nation's history and culture and deserve an honored place in it. It's like going to Israel and asking that all Jewish symbols be removed from public life or demanding that all Islamic symbols be removed from Saudi Arabia. It's idiotic.

 

[DJ]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

PW2,<br /><br />Get real, the ACLU won't touch those org's with a ten foot pole, and you know it. You can't pull the standard "flip" on me.<br /><br />They're OFF LIMITS.

 

[Stratosfied]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

To answer your question, yes I have read the entire Constitution. I only wish our elected officals did.

 

[jtexas]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Originally posted by DJ:<br /> As long as it ain't Christianity-RIGHT???

DJ, all due respect, have you got any actual examples where Islam (or any other religion) has been promoted by any teachers in any public schools, and supported by administrators, parents, ACLU or anyone?

 

[Wimperdink]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

Quote from DJ:<br /> "I personally don't see it as a big deal, because it is written in Christian destiny. We know it's coming (the persecution) yet human nature keeps us fighting. My faith side fights, everyday, with my human side. I know I will be persecuted by unbelievers, I accept it.<br /><br />But, I'll go down with my clip empty. [Wink]"<br /><br /><br />That quote should be framed and hung on my wall. I love it and wholeheartedly agree.<br /><br /><br />Quote from Alden:"Amendment I<br />Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;......<br /><br />Just in case no one wants to look it up."<br /><br /><br />I had that copied and was ready to paste when I decided to read through the rest of the posts. That says it all in one simple setence.<br /><br /><br />One more thing we are forgetting here folks. Its not illegal to teach your children to pray. Outloud, Silent, Inhome, Inpublic, or Inschool. It all starts at home. They only do as they are taught. Maybe its time to take the attention away from the activists and take the time to lead by example. The more we give attention to extremists the more power they gain. Turn off the nightly news and have dinner around the table as a family and give thanks for the food and everything you have to be gratefull for. <br /><br />---->Wimp puts his soapbox back in the closet<----

 

[roscoe]

Re: The U.S. Constitution, have you actually read it???

jtexas, I know of several gradeschool class field trips that went to Muslim mosques. And I was a part of one in high school, part of our Middle Eastern Studies class. But we didn't go to a Synagog (sp) or Baptist or Catholic church. Isn't that "respecting an establishment of religion"? or promoting one over another?<br /><br />And we had to learn all about Golda Mier. But we didn't study anything that had to do with the Bible.