The John McCain Bill

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: The John McCain Bill

How will that bill deal with this? I guess the system does work. <br /><br /><br />***And there is no reason, Bob, that young American soldiers need to be going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs. Whether you like it or not...***<br /><br /> <br />Kerry: American soldiers are "terrorizing kids and...women"
 

demsvmejm

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
831
Re: The John McCain Bill

Since when do we judge someone guilty before we prove the guilt? When you condone torture of someone because of "suspecting" them as a terrorist, is not sufficient evidence. Think of the Salem witch hunts. I think I heard Lubedude talking that he was expectign a payment from OBL. Does that provide enough "suspicion" to whisk him off to a secret priosn and torture him because I suspect him?<br /><br />If you have an open mind you will see my point and how it can be abused. I do not propose we pamper these suspects. I also agree that the burden of proof should be lessened from what we require for US citizens. But I do disagree with the proposition that torture is acceptable. In limited, well deliberated situations for truly dangerous captives maybe, but "just because" is deplorable and beneath us as Americans, IMO.<br /><br />And to invest this much effort in outlawing something that is already illegal is just plain silly. However, there is evidence to make one question if the current administration has reduced itself to this illegal behavior. And that should be enough to make self-respecting Americans upset with their governement. If it is illegal, it is not OK for the government to engage in the behavior because they "think" it is necessary. It is illegal, perhaps that is why McCain felt it necessary to introduce a bill, for public awareness. Not for himself, but to drive home to the administration that this is against the law and therefore is not to be tolerated. <br /><br />If indeed torture is necessary in the war on terror, then perhaps the bush administration should have properly, through the appropriate processes, legalized the activity. But this is contrary to the abitrary, unilateral behavior of the bush administration. I am sorry to offend the red party hardliners, but I don't think you can refute that baby bush and his administration has on several occasions done what they damn well pleased. To heck with proper, established procedures, what they wanted was all that mattered.
 

heycods

Captain
Joined
Nov 11, 2005
Messages
3,941
Re: The John McCain Bill

Pointer:If thier were shots fired at my team from the dirrection of your house , I might feel justified in Investigating the houses around frome where the shots were fired. some of these people are inocent and caught up in a situation.War is hellMaby that not clear best I can do on short notice.
 

POINTER94

Vice Admiral
Joined
Oct 12, 2003
Messages
5,031
Re: The John McCain Bill

I agree totally. I wonder why there were those who were demonizing Bush when he had Gonzales investigate and define what torture legally is? Then made it politically unpaletable to further legislate a policy? Oh well. Then we have a bunch of "PATRIOTS" calling our troops terrorists and nazi's. These same patriots then defined torture as putting underwear on someones head. This is nuts.
 

KRS

Banned
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
2,383
Re: The John McCain Bill

define torture, this dialogue is useless without a description. To some... being locked up is torture. To some, you need to nip off fingers with a pair of bolt cutters. Is sleep deprivation TRUE torture?<br /><br />Let's talk about what we all think it "IS".
 

JB

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Mar 25, 2001
Messages
45,907
Re: The John McCain Bill

Hmmmm. That isn't as easy as one might think, AFF.<br /><br />Condi and others have used words like "cruel", but what does that mean?<br /><br />To me, if it inflicts intense physical or emotional pain, or threatens to, it is torture.<br /><br />I went through what the US called "POW Training" back in the mid 50s. It emulated what the N. Koreans and Chinese did to our people during the Korean war to "brainwash" them. The parts that I can mention were just intense humiliation and denigration of our values. It was horrible to experience, but I wouldn't call it torture.<br /><br />What the NVA did to McCain and others was, in my opinion, torture.
 

pjc

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Jun 29, 2003
Messages
1,856
Re: The John McCain Bill

traitor mcain....posting for #
 

waterone1@aol.com

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 10, 2004
Messages
1,235
Re: The John McCain Bill

In my opinion, wear a uniform, fight in the open as an army, we will treat you as such and abide by the Geneva convention. Hide with women and children, wear a riffle one minute and pretend to be an inocent citizen the next moment....anything is open for us.....including torture.
 
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