Re: Tasered by Utah Highway Patrol
sorry about the length, but you did ask for examples...
No one said anything about ONLY cops critiqueing cops.
OK, then who do you suggest is "qualified" to critique a cop, besides other cops?
Comments like the one above are what discredits your statements. Do you have any evidence besides what you've seen or heard on the internet or TV about these "legitimate" complaints? Have you seen the evidence from BOTH sides? Do you have UNEDITED video or audio of these "legitimate" complaints?
Portland, OR is the city closest to me and one that I have lived in several times. In the past twenty years there have been MANY police shootings, and at least as far as I have read about them, MANY if not MOST of them have been against people who turned out to be unarmed and just crazy, stupid, or even in diabetic shock and acting strangely. Police have been known to shoot people to make them obey, when they were acting strangely.
Only one cop that I know of was removed from the force for a police shooting. He had been called to remove a troublesome gang banger from a bus where he was being an a*****e. The kid ran away, throwing away his gun as he ran. The cop pursued him with a high capacity Glock, through a four lane arterial at rush hour and EMPTIED his magazine at the kid's back, and then stopped and RELOADED and continued shooting. While surrounded by traffic, pedestrians, houses, etc. in front of dozens of witnesses. One bullet managed to find its target, wounding and bringing down the stupid gangster, and miraculously, no bystanders were injured. Did the police force reject this man's outrageous actions? No. They defended him to the end, defended this shooting as justified, but the public outcry was so intense that the officer was eventually removed. If it had been up to the union and his co workers he would have had NO punishment and would have kept his job.
Want another one? This one is still in the courts. Police spot scruffy looking guy peeing in the bushes. He sees the cops, and runs away. They chase him down and two heavy cops jump on this guy and bring him to the pavement with a couple of 200 + pound cops on top of him ("perp" is 145#). they kick the crap out of him and hog tie him. He has no weapons, no warrants and was later found to have no intoxicants in his blood. But he did have 16 broken ribs and a punctured lung. Unbelieveably, the medics release him to go to jail, still hogtied. There is a now famous photo of the cops and medics standing around laughing while this guy lies hogtied on the pavement, dying.
That's right, he DIED. Because he was crazy, homeless and afraid enough of the cops to try to run away from them. That was his crime. The officer who took him down has a long long list of similar excessive force complaints, and the union and the city defend him completely, with taxpayer dollars.
A few years ago, my wife was pulled over in Portland for going too slowly (she was looking for the street she needed to turn onto). The officer was acting strangely, not really coming to the point and creeping her out. When he saw the kids in the back of the van, he abruptly let her go with some weird threatening comment about "next time." Years later, a cop did get booted off the force for a long, long history of pulling over women who were alone, getting them out of the car to search them for his "safety" and groping them. Complaints had piled up against him for years apparently, with nothing being done about it until the most recent victims had given up with the police chief and went to the papers. Eventually it all came unraveled and they had to fire the guy, but they defended him with taxpayer dollars for a long time.
yeah sure, respect the uniform huh? That's exactly what that creep was counting on. And his peers and supervisors covered for him out of instinct. What would you do if your wife got pulled over and groped by a cop? What would you do if the police force refused to do anything about your complaint and kept the guy on the force?
I know that there are many many incidents every day where cops do their jobs well and respectfully and that those never make the paper. And that cops who commonly use excessive force are probably in the small minority. Which is why I think they should be removed from the force.
But I also know from personal experience and from following the news that there are lots and lots of incidents every day where police officers abuse their authority and get away with it because no one died, complained, or took video. Most of the time it is precipitated by a civilian who is acting strangely, not following orders, or not understanding what the officer wants of them, sometimes due to language barriers, sometimes because they are stupid or on drugs, sometimes just because they are crazy or retarded or having a medical episode. Either way, there is no death penalty for those things.
Nobody expects you to ?worship? a uniform. But Woodrat, my guess is that you have never served in a military or law enforcement capacity. If you had you would know from the military that "you don't salute the man, you salute the uniform". You're required to salute a superior officer whether you respect him or not. If he's incompetent you work to have him relieved but you still salute him.
It kind of works the same way with cops. No one expects you to "worship" a uniform. But you show a little respect for the uniform when they approach you and they'll treat you with the same respect. You try to prove how big and bad you are to that uniform and you?ll probably find out exactly where you stand on the big and bad scale. You?re dealing with someone who has been trained that they CANNOT lose control of any situation or it may cost them their life.
If i was in the military or the police force, yes, I would have to salute the uniform, whether or not it was occupied by anyone who deserved respect. But I am NOT in the military or police force. I am a civilian, in a civil society, not a military dictatorship or police state. I am NOT required to salute the police officer. Only to fear and obey him when necessary. I don't respect an empty uniform, only the man or woman who is wearing it, and then only if they warrant respect.
I'm old enough and smart enough now that I never try to out-badass the cop. That is a losing game, everytime. But I sure am not going to salute the guy when he is being an unprofessional jerk.
My comment on ?qualified? critique was directed towards Drowned Rats' comments on Tasers as alternates to deadly force. If you want to make comments on the use of deadly force or alternates, your comments have a lot more credibility if you at least know what deadly force is!!
Which he proved that he does. What remains is just a difference of opinion.
