Suzuki Dt16 Starter

[micmor64]

Just received a 1981 DT16 (1602-103623). the starter pinion gear does not rise when the starter rope is pulled. I'm an old experienced "johnny-rude" guy with top mounted recoil starters, and this is my first look ever at a Suzuki vertical manual start unit. After trying to start the motor with no luck engaging the pinion, I have disassembled (starter) and thoroughly cleaned and re-assembled with no luck. Question - what makes the pinion rise on these starters? Inertia does not seem to be the ticket (it's clean, but is something i'm not seeing... worn?), looking up parts diagrams online everything seems to be there, any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[flyingscott]

Put up a pic of the starter

 

[micmor64]

Put up a pic of the starter

I'm a bit tech challenged, but as soon as I can figure it out, I'll put up a PIC.

 

[QBhoy]

Hi. Hard to get parts for these days. But I know of a living and breathing example from late 70’s. I’ll have a look at it’s working. I also know that the DT14 and DT18 used the same arrangement too. If it helps

 

[micmor64]

well, my digital camera is ka-put, my notebook has no camera and I have no smartphone.... so I can't get a pic. posted of the manual pull start assembly. Looking up the parts, is "looks like" either of the pull starters in the parts diagrams for the "Starter 1" or "Starter 2" groups by the factory diagrams, but I don't see where the S/N matches up (Mine is a 1602-103623). This is a vertical shaft pull start assembly with the "pull rope" coming out of the lower engine cover (not the upper fiberglass engine cover). Everything seems to be there, and the rope pulls freely yet the pinion gear does not rise. If I really, really yank the rope as fast as I can, very occasionally, the gear will rise (not consistently or often).

 

[QBhoy]

well, my digital camera is ka-put, my notebook has no camera and I have no smartphone.... so I can't get a pic. posted of the manual pull start assembly. Looking up the parts, is "looks like" either of the pull starters in the parts diagrams for the "Starter 1" or "Starter 2" groups by the factory diagrams, but I don't see where the S/N matches up (Mine is a 1602-103623). This is a vertical shaft pull start assembly with the "pull rope" coming out of the lower engine cover (not the upper fiberglass engine cover). Everything seems to be there, and the rope pulls freely yet the pinion gear does not rise. If I really, really yank the rope as fast as I can, very occasionally, the gear will rise (not consistently or often).

Have you checked that the drive pin that goes through the top engaging gear is in place ? That allows the engagement, by means of following the spiral climbing slot up the shaft, when rotated…if you get me. Hopefully the drawing below depicts as much. If there is no means or ability for the gear to be lifted by such a means, it will just spin perhaps. Or alternatively, something is preventing the mechanical means of the gear being able to do so perhaps.

 

[micmor64]

Have you checked that the drive pin that goes through the top engaging gear is in place ? That allows the engagement, by means of following the spiral climbing slot up the shaft, when rotated…if you get me. Hopefully the drawing below depicts as much. If there is no means or ability for the gear to be lifted by such a means, it will just spin perhaps. Or alternatively, something is preventing the mechanical means of the gear being able to do so perhaps.

It looks like all the parts are there, I haven't spent more than a few minutes with this, but after a day with family and friends, I should be able to devote more time to this. I can, very occasionally, if I "yank" the rope hard and fast enough, get the gear to rise but........ mostly, not. Work on the motor will begin in earnest in the next couple of days. I was given the motor as part of a "package deal" for some trailer repair work, and it includes a late '50's Herters 13.5' Hudson Bay fiberglass boat and trailer. I'd like everything to be cleaned and refitted ready for the spring season.

 

[brodmann]

You say you took it all apart and cleaned it up. Did the gear slide up and down the shaft when it was all apart? I've had the same problem on electric start motors and a good shot of WD40 on the shaft thatthe gear rides on did the trick with no probmes. I believe your gear is plastic or vinyl, do lithium grease may be better for you. If you can force the gear up, I'd grease the shaft or look to make sure the gear isn't damaged somehow. Should be an easy fix.

 

[QBhoy]

It looks like all the parts are there, I haven't spent more than a few minutes with this, but after a day with family and friends, I should be able to devote more time to this. I can, very occasionally, if I "yank" the rope hard and fast enough, get the gear to rise but........ mostly, not. Work on the motor will begin in earnest in the next couple of days. I was given the motor as part of a "package deal" for some trailer repair work, and it includes a late '50's Herters 13.5' Hudson Bay fiberglass boat and trailer. I'd like everything to be cleaned and refitted ready for the spring season.

So. Just with regards to what I said earlier about the pin through the shaft and pinion gear…I’ve literally just spoken to the friend who has the identical engine (from 1978/79)..this very thing happened to him the first time he tried her out, after acquiring. It turned out that the pin had actually fallen out and was then found lying in the bottom of the lower cowling casing. Definitely make sure that pin is still in place. Must be a common thing to happen.

 

[99yam40]

So. Just with regards to what I said earlier about the pin through the shaft and pinion gear…I’ve literally just spoken to the friend who has the identical engine (from 1978/79)..this very thing happened to him the first time he tried her out, after acquiring. It turned out that the pin had actually fallen out and was then found lying in the bottom of the lower cowling casing. Definitely make sure that pin is still in place. Must be a common thing to happen.

if it fell out how would it work just sometimes?

 

[micmor64]

if it fell out how would it work just sometimes?

Just came in from the shop, spent some time working with the motor. The pin is definitely there, and everything looks as the parts diagram. I found that if I apply just a small amount of side pressure (an ounce maybe), while gently and slowly pulling the rope, the gear rises just as it should. Without the side pressure, no rise. The gear is metal and I've disassembled, cleaned several times and tried several lubes (from bearing grease, to lithium to vasaline, to nothing at all) each with the same result..... no rise in the gear unless there is a little side pressure. A little side load the gear rises and I'm sure I can start the motor this way, releasing the rope and the gear re-tracts just fine. I'm a bit confused as to what to try next???

 

[micmor64]

You say you took it all apart and cleaned it up. Did the gear slide up and down the shaft when it was all apart? I've had the same problem on electric start motors and a good shot of WD40 on the shaft thatthe gear rides on did the trick with no probmes. I believe your gear is plastic or vinyl, do lithium grease may be better for you. If you can force the gear up, I'd grease the shaft or look to make sure the gear isn't damaged somehow. Should be an easy fix.

All looks to be in very good shape with no obvious signs of wear on any of the components. Oil, grease, WD40, or squeeky clean, nothing seems to work.

 

[QBhoy]

if it fell out how would it work just sometimes?

I’m sure you’d get something to work instead. My friend reckoned the retention of the pin was likely to blame. Had just came loose on his.

 

[micmor64]

if all it takes is a little side pressure on the gear while gently pulling the rope to get the gear to rise, is it possible (it seems unlikely to me though), that there is just a bit too much clearance between the gear ID and the plastic/slotted bushing? If over the years the plastic has "shrunk" perhaps a new bushing is the ticket? I can fabricate the bushing diameters easily enough but don't quite know how I would slot it.

 

[99yam40]

is the side pressure you put on it acting as resistance to keep it from turning too easily which in turn causes it to rise instead of just freely turning around maybe

 

[micmor64]

is the side pressure you put on it acting as resistance to keep it from turning too easily which in turn causes it to rise instead of just freely turning around maybe

Yes, exactly. "too easily" and "light side pressure" are relative terms I know, but without a way to measure and a spec to measure to it's all I've got.

 

[micmor64]

Problem Solved?
I've been off this project for a couple of weeks and am just now getting back to it. Had a conversation with the previous owner, he stated his son in law replaced the start rope. After a little messing around today, It appears in doing so he "over stretched" the friction spring.

I dis-assembled the starter, "closed" the spring down a "tad" and re-assembled, and things seem to be working fine. Now I'll settle in to a long winters' project of carb removal/clean, plugs, wires, valve adjustment, etc and all else I can think to do to a 40 year old motor (assuming good compression). Then it'll be a new paint job before the spring thaw.

 

[99yam40]

good to hear, thanks for updating what the problem was.

 

[micmor64]

Life has a way of interrupting my projects for sure. What appeared to work initially again failed. Pinion Gear won't raise when pulling the start rope. I again dis-assembled the starter and methodically approached this project again with a "fresh Look" and believe I now have the final solution. It appeared after careful examination, that the cross hole in the top of the shaft (where the pin goes through to raise the pinion gear) had "flared" out just a small amount on each side. I was only measuring a few thousandths of deformation, but it was enough to keep the pinion gear from moving freely. I carefully filed the top of the shaft round again, then stoned it to remove any filing marks, then went to the lathe to polish the shaft. At most I only removed a couple of 10'ths from the diameter but was able to remove ALL swelling at the cross hole location. The starter now works smoothly each and every time with no issues whatsoever. Problem finally solved.

 

[QBhoy]

Life has a way of interrupting my projects for sure. What appeared to work initially again failed. Pinion Gear won't raise when pulling the start rope. I again dis-assembled the starter and methodically approached this project again with a "fresh Look" and believe I now have the final solution. It appeared after careful examination, that the cross hole in the top of the shaft (where the pin goes through to raise the pinion gear) had "flared" out just a small amount on each side. I was only measuring a few thousandths of deformation, but it was enough to keep the pinion gear from moving freely. I carefully filed the top of the shaft round again, then stoned it to remove any filing marks, then went to the lathe to polish the shaft. At most I only removed a couple of 10'ths from the diameter but was able to remove ALL swelling at the cross hole location. The starter now works smoothly each and every time with no issues whatsoever. Problem finally solved.

Excellent result. Yeah. Think I might of mentioned that these are apparently well known for doing just that. Was a friend with one that told me as much.