Summer Fiberglassing

[nehringer]

I'm about to dive into a project. I'm in the process of getting my hands on a 1976 Sport Craft tri-hull bow rider that I am going to turn into a center console bay boat. I've not even seen this boat yet, but I'm getting it simply for the cost of the title fee. At this point, I have to assume that all of the wood is shot and I've got a lot of fiberglass work to do. Well, whether it is shot or not, I KNOW I've got lots of glass work to do! I'm not a stranger to it, but I did my last fiberglass project in the very early spring when outside/garage temperatures were nearly perfect. If I get finsished with the disection say in mid July, the first batch of polyester will be applied when the mercury is still between 90-100. I need to know how I should adjust my chemical mixture so that my goop dosn't prematurely kick off in this heat.

Another question I have is about finishing coatings. I plan on painting the whole thing with Awlgrip, or Perfection...haven't decided...way ahead of myslef for the present stage. But if I'm going to paint everything with an epoxy based paint, do I need to apply a coat of gelcoat over the raw glass, or is primer and paint sufficient without gelcoat?

Nearly all of the wood is going to be replaced with nidacore. I know it costs a little more, but I like working with it and the weight adavntage. Spaking of weight, is it possible to make it TOO light? Basically, the nidacore is going to be used for the stringers, deck and some above deck construction. The transom will still be wood and I am planning on having about 40 gallons of fuel, bow mount trolling motor, two batteries and maybe a 30 gallon bait tank in the bow. Minus the wood floor, seats and consoles and add all the above, I'm figuring on at least a 200-300 diet from the original construction. The previous owner said that he used a 55hp and it pushed it just fine. I'm affraid that by cutting so much weight, this thing will launch smooth out of the water at WOT with a 55. Am I wrong? Oh...the boat is a 16'. I just want enough power for the boat to glide along comfortably with four adults with power to spare, yet I don't want it chine walking when I'm by myself, or when my kids are by themselves. I'll start a whole photo-journal once I get this thing started.

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

If I get finsished with the disection say in mid July, the first batch of polyester will be applied when the mercury is still between 90-100. I need to know how I should adjust my chemical mixture so that my goop dosn't prematurely kick off in this heat.

Depends on the MEK..but yes. you dont use Highpoint 90 MEK in 100 deg weather ( there are other poly MEKs for higher/slower cure times ). its a chemical thingy really.. research for your application..

Another question I have is about finishing coatings. I plan on painting the whole thing with Awlgrip, or Perfection...haven't decided...way ahead of myself for the present stage. But if I'm going to paint everything with an epoxy based paint, do I need to apply a coat of gelcoat over the raw glass, or is primer and paint sufficient without gelcoat?

Spray or Roll and Tip ? .. Awlgrip LP is brushable where Awlcraft is not .. Perfection..hmm. Its best if you Prime first to show your pinholes or other imperfections. A base of prepped gel could be used .. not normally done when working with Paint finishes. Primers are your best bet ( 545 is what I use/suggest ).

Nearly all of the wood is going to be replaced with nidacore. I know it costs a little more, but I like working with it and the weight adavntage. Spaking of weight, is it possible to make it TOO light? Basically, the nidacore is going to be used for the stringers, deck and some above deck construction. The transom will still be wood and I am planning on having about 40 gallons of fuel, bow mount trolling motor, two batteries and maybe a 30 gallon bait tank in the bow. Minus the wood floor, seats and consoles and add all the above, I'm figuring on at least a 200-300 diet from the original construction. The previous owner said that he used a 55hp and it pushed it just fine. I'm affraid that by cutting so much weight, this thing will launch smooth out of the water at WOT with a 55. Am I wrong? Oh...the boat is a 16'. I just want enough power for the boat to glide along comfortably with four adults with power to spare, yet I don't want it chine walking when I'm by myself, or when my kids are by themselves. I'll start a whole photo-journal once I get this thing started.

Too Light .. ? gonna have to play with ballast.. but I dont think it would be a Big problem..

YD.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

Check the plate on the hull for the max HP rating for your boat, it should be someplace around 90HP, a 55 would be about the least HP you could get a away with.

That boat most likely had two 6 gallon portable fuel tanks in it, which is about 90 lbs. Not only will it be difficult to find a place to put a 40 gallon tank, it will weigh around 300 lbs full. Then add a 30 gallon live well, two batteries, a trolling motor, the center console, plus other odds and ends and you will have easily exceeded the original weight of the boat. Nidacore will save a few lbs at a very high cost, but may not be the best option for what you plan to do.

While it's fun to imagine what can be done, don't over think it, simple is best. First get the boat and check it out, actually check it out before you bring it home, you may be stuck with disposing of it if it's in bad condition.

 

[Woodonglass]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

Now That ^^^^^ is some GOOD advice!!!!!

 

[nehringer]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

Check the plate on the hull for the max HP rating for your boat, it should be someplace around 90HP, a 55 would be about the least HP you could get a away with.

That boat most likely had two 6 gallon portable fuel tanks in it, which is about 90 lbs. Not only will it be difficult to find a place to put a 40 gallon tank, it will weigh around 300 lbs full. Then add a 30 gallon live well, two batteries, a trolling motor, the center console, plus other odds and ends and you will have easily exceeded the original weight of the boat. Nidacore will save a few lbs at a very high cost, but may not the best option for what you plan to do.

While it's fun to imagine what can be done, don't over think it, simple is best. First get the boat and check it out, actually check it out before you bring it home, you may be stuck with disposing of it if it's bad condition.

I bought 1/2" nidacore last year for $70 per sheet. Marine ply is $60+. I'm not really impressed by some of the wood that's circulating out there. Lots of counterfieting going on with marine laminates and I have heard storries of brand new, suposedly exotic wood delaminating. I don't know where you're at, but where I am there is ONE guy that carries good wood and EVERYONE goes to him. God only knows what the local shipyards are going to do when this character retires or expires...whichever happens first. Properly laimnated and supported, nidacore is incredibly strong. I do need wood for the transom, but I think I can cut one out of one sheet.

As far as the boat is concerned, I don't really think there could possibly be any "condition" that can't be fixed. I'm told the hull is solid and that is all I really need of this thing. The rest of it is going to be "one-off". I wouldn't even be thinking about a project like this, 1. if I had to pay money for the boat, and 2. if I wasn't sure of my fabricating abilities. I'm very well aware that this is not a "paint and polish" job and I appreciate your advice to check it out first, but at this level, that would be a waste of a good 5 minutes. As far as placement of the fuel tank, take a look at drewpster's thread. He placed a 19 gallon tank in the far aft corner under the splash well. Once the cap comes off and the floor goes in, there isn't anything in there BUT space! It's all a matter of how creative you can be with what you intend to cram into that space. Hell, I oughtta have my wife do it. I'll never know how she gets the whole house into one suitcase when we travel!

 

[oops!]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

my friend......get the boat first....ondarvrs post was spot on.

lets see what you have to work with.

no one here is going to dissuade you from getting what you want (or for that fact building it)
but you are allready on to paint and epoxy when we dont know the condition of the hull !
one step at a time my friend.

IF you get the boat....spend time realistically thinking your needs and wants.....everything in a boat is a trade off......if you want the big gas tank.....you suffer speed.....if you want anything in a boat......you will have to give up something.......

i beleive there are several well built center consoles on this forum......hit search for some ideas on what yours might look like.

cheers
oops

 

[nehringer]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

Ya know, Oops, I've looked. I can't really find anything "on point" with what I want to do. I've seen a few, but they sort of "missed". I had a '73 Glastron tri-hull about 16 years ago. I've seen the guts of numerous '70's tri-hulls and there aren't too many variables. Aside from some very minute detail, they are nearly all made the same. It is what it is. It is with that experience that I can conjur an image in my mind and project priorities of work, draft a shopping list and estimate time that would/should/could be involved.

Here's my "problem"...I'm an offshore helicopter pilot. I live out here in my little room on this platform and when I'm not flying, I'm researching one thing or the other. I like to study. I like to gather facts and information BEFORE I have to call for a life-line. I spend a week at a time out here and then I'm home for a week. I have a whole week to plan and then a whole week to execute my plan. Yeah, I want to get my hands on the boat first too. However, I'm asking questions based on what could be the worst case scenario that I can come up with. Clearly, the WCS would be a lump of blackened fiberglass on a trailer with two flats and a bent axle. My WCS image looks like something from a 1940's cartoon! I'm at least a little confident that the reality of it will be something slightly better off than WCS.

Of the boats that I experiemented on in the past, I didn't have the internet as a resource at that time and I know now that there are so many things that I could have done had I had the right information. Regardless of the actual condition of the boat, I will know very quickly if anything can be done with it. It will be one of those matters where either "anything" or "nothing" can be done. Dude! You cut a boat in half! C'mon! Really? It was actually your thread that convinced me that there wasn't anything out there broken enough so as to be completely irreprable. All I want is a slick hull and a trailer, and I'm getting it for free. I don't really think it's too soon to be thinking about specific materials or techniques. I'm trying to plan the job in stages since I only have a week at a time to work on it. Before I leave, all of my toys and my mess ahs to be cleaned up, as if I was never there. That means having a set plan of attack for the first week. Then, after another week of planning offshore, I come home and attack, so on and so forth. It really helps me forcast my financial and my time budget wisely if I have a thorough understanding of the task from a WCS perspective. If I have all of my questions to date answered, then I can set aside the money I need for my next internet order for materials. I don't really have much to do out here when I'm not flying. Indulging in a little obssession every now and then maintains my sanity!

By the way, I'm a retired Army officer. I don't visit the latrine without a plan. I've had some awful luck with boats because I elected to ask questions AFTER I had a problem. So you and everyone else will have to forgive my "over-eagerness" into the unknown. I don't think it's unwise to labor under the dillusion that this thing is a perfect basket case. I may be delightfully surprised. I don't think I could be disappointed with the very low expectations I have. Either way, it really helps to see other's mistakes. I study this. I learn from everything I see you guys do in your posts. Over planning in the earliest stages of this will hopefully keep me out of trouble later on down the road.

Keep in mind, this isn't a restoration for nostalgic purposes or to "preserve the species" so to speak. I want to build a fishing boat and I want to build it my way. Of course, I have to conform to some certain construction methods so that the vessel is safe and durable. I want a large fuel supply, (for that size of boat) because I will be running the bay, not just around the lake. I want a good 50-60 mile range. I think by distributing the weight of all of my other goodies longitudinaly along the centerline, I can compensate for a heavy fuel supply in the rear. Again, that's part of the reason for lightening the dry weight by using composites for te deck and stringers rather than wood. Minimizing the amount of resin is going to depend entirely on the condition and original construction. Mounting the very lightest motor I can get away with is also important, but that's a decision I will make much later. My final dry weight has to be light as all of the other crap I plan on mounting/installing/carrying is going to be relatively heavy.

If for some reason at first glance, this thing turns out to be a real problem, I will reject it and move onto the next. I'm not committed...although by all accounts, I probably should be! Hopefully this provides a little insight into my head.

 

[ondarvr]

Re: Summer Fiberglassing

I had a similar boat many years ago and I could go 50 miles on less than three 6 gallon fuel tanks easily with a 50HPJohnson on it, when I stuck a 90 on it the results were worse, but it was a Force and they were known to have poor mileage.

You wouldn't want a 40 gallon tank in the rear of the boat, it would need to be centered and low to be safe and handle well.

If I was going to make a custom bay or flats boat I would look at what's popular on the market now and see if I could find a similar hull and start there. There aren't many tri hull boats on the market anymore, people's preferences have moved away from them, they are also heavier for the same size hull, they can also produce more drag resulting in worse mileage.

I have a 19' center console bay boat with a very shallow V and almost no deadrise at the transom. http://www.bluewaveboats.com/boats/190-Classic-19.cfm It is light years ahead of my old tri hull. With a 90 on it it performed far better than my old tri hull did with a 90, I even had a 50 on it for short period of time and even that would plane the boat, I have a 200 on it now.

There are a lot of old shallow V ski boats out there for free too.