still having selectric problems

[hastyryan]

ok, i have the electric shift motor, not the hydro(theres no pump other than the water pump in the lower unit) my problem is that it won't hold in forward it keeps kicking in and out, checked the clutch dog and foward gear all looks well. I read some where about checking ohms to the solenoids, and it said i should have about 6, i have 4.6. It also said to check for continuity between the blue and green wires so i did and there was cont., but if i diconect the solenoids i don't have cont. so the wires are good. also i have cont. between the sol. wire and the outer casing on both of them. So does anybody know where this leads me now? please help me!! lol

 

[Daviet]

Re: still having selectric problems

You got me confused, there are two types of electric shift lower units, one use a pump and solenoids and the other uses coils and springs. They are completely different lower units, what is your model number?

 

[yorab]

Re: still having selectric problems

checked the clutch dog and foward gear all looks well

Hello hastyryan. You don't have a clutch dog if you have the electric shift motor. Can you explain a bit more about the thing that you checked that you believed is called the "clutch dog"? What is your model number/year?

I read some where about checking ohms to the solenoids, and it said i should have about 6, i have 4.6

I don't have my manuals with me so I can't help with the resistance values. There are definitely threads on the forum that give the correct values. I know because I've researched those in the past.

continuity between the blue and green wires so i did and there was cont.

If I'm not mistaken (and somebody please correct me if I am), there should NOT be continuity between the blue and green wires. This indicates a short circuit between them which means that the forward and reverse electromagnetic coils can be energized at the same time--VERY BAD! If they are energized at the same time while the driveshaft is rotating, something must give there is a very likely chance that one of the drivetrain components will be that "something" and break.

Do you have the lower unit removed? I suspect shorted wiring which can be checked simply by tracing the wires and looking for abraded insulation or exposed conductor. Either that or the wiring is shorted somewhere between the remote control box and the "knife connectors" at the powerhead. I've attached a pic of my shift wire harness that I found had exposed conductor when I rebuilt my engine. Also attached is a pic of me testing the EM coil. It checked out ok.

BTW, as always, you should get a Factory Service Manual for your engine. They can sometimes be found on ebay and can always be found at outboardbooks.com.

 

[mstahl1171]

Re: still having selectric problems

You are correct YORAB....should be about 6-8 ohms from the lead to ground if memory serves me correct. More than likely its a faulty wiring harness. By the way..thanks for the lead on the wiring harness parts...all is well now

Mark

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

mine is model number 60172c (i beleive it comes up as a 71 60 hp) and yes i guess theyre coils not sole.,(sorry for the confusion) the thing that i called the clutch dog, i removed the prop, removed the housing behind it(with the 4 allen bolts) then took out 2 snap rings and removed the shaft, it had the reverse gear on it, and another peice that ingages the forward and reverse gears, it was held onto the shaft with a roll pin...that is what i was led to believe was called a clutch dog and yorab my coils don't look like yours they are under a cover in front of the water pump and look a lot like snow plow coils if youve ever seen those......

 

[Daviet]

Re: still having selectric problems

OK, you have a hydro-electric shift lower unit. It does have a pump located in the front porition of the gearcase. You do have a clutch dog as you described. It uses electric solenoids to move the shift piston to move the clutch dog and shift gears.
There should be voltage to the green wire to shift into neutral and voltage to both the green and blue wire at the same time to shift into reverse. No voltage to either wire will give you forward.
What exactly is the problem you are having?

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

You say its hydro elec, yet I dont see any other pump in there, and the trouble im having is it won't hold in forward wants to jump in and out, maybe pics will help

 

[Daviet]

Re: still having selectric problems

Look below, #4 is the pump I am talking about, it is what shifts your lower unit. The lower unit defaults to forward when there is no voltage to the solenoids. If it is jumping out of forward gear, I would suspect the clutch dog and forward gear contact area.
http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/js...CatFilter=BRP&eCatSupFldr=supplier-100-005-EJ

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

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yorab, when i checked the cont. between the green and blue at the top of the motor there was cont., but then i went below and disconected the coils wich eliminated my cont, so the wiring should be good, but the i put one lead of my tester on the wire to the coil itself and the other touching the casing of the coil and there again was cont

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

Look below, #4 is the pump I am talking about, it is what shifts your lower unit. The lower unit defaults to forward when there is no voltage to the solenoids. If it is jumping out of forward gear, I would suspect the clutch dog and forward gear contact area.
http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/js...CatFilter=BRP&eCatSupFldr=supplier-100-005-EJ

ahh ok i didn't see that pump in there, but now it makes sense what the teeth on the other end of my foward gear went to, the foward gear and dog both looked to be in great shape not chewwed or rounded or even marked up when i start the motor up and bring it up off idle it starts jumping like something is slipping only when the boat is in water with a load on it, and also now that its a hydro elec what type of fluid does it need is this still the premium ive heard of?

 

[yorab]

Re: still having selectric problems

Okay, now that we know you have the hydro-electric shift and not the selectric shift (two different beasts), I have to bow out of the conversation. I know nothing about the hydro-electric shift. The above info is for selectric shift only so please don't apply any of the info that I mentioned earlier to your motor. The circuits are set up differently between the two.

Last thing that I'll mention is that many of the outboard stalwarts who post here say to never use RTV-type sealant on an outboard. At least not for the '60s models. I've personally taken that advice and I only use the recommended sealers for my engine. In the case of my 1963 engine, OMC recommended Sealer 1000 and some other kind of gasket sealer. The Sealer 1000 is no longer made, so Scotchweld 847 replaces that. It is available online or at places like Fastenal. The other gasket sealer is available online or at many marinas that work on OMC. It is called BRP Gasket Sealing Compound. The FSM will tell you where to apply the various types of sealers. I bring up this point because it looks like you have some blue RTV on your lower unit. Perhaps the RTV won't kill the engine, but some of these guys have been working on OMC engines for many decades and they would never use RTV. I'm happy to live by their advice on that topic.

 

[Daviet]

Re: still having selectric problems

It takes type "c" lower unit oil, I think they do call it premium, just make sure it's for an electric shift lower unit. No metal particles in the lower unit oil? It only jumps under load, have you checked to make sure you are not dropping a cylinder? Didn't spin the prop hub?

 

[soundchaser]

Re: still having selectric problems

All this talk about the lower unit, Does the controls work properly? from what I understand most of the problems have been with the controls of these motors.

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

i just bought the boat, had to clean the carbs put in a new water pump typical stuff, had it running like a raped ape, then all of the sudden it kicked into N then back into F so i slowed down and now it does it at all throttle other than idle, idk what a spun prop is like how would i know if thats the case, i can turn the motor over using the prop if that means anything, and i'm still wondering about my coils(the fact that there is cont. between the wire and the casing) does that mean that they're shorted out?? and i wouldn't think it was ignition because i've tried it with a plug wire off each of the cyls and it does the same thing

 

[hastyryan]

Re: still having selectric problems

and also the the lube was clean no metallic or anything

 

[soundchaser]

Re: still having selectric problems

case of motor is negative, All circuits use the case as negative. all circuits will have continuity to the case.

 

[Daviet]

Re: still having selectric problems

In my thought process, the solenoids only have one wire to apply voltage, they have to ground through the case to complete the circuit. If i remember correctly when you test one you attach one wire to the wire and touch the other to the case. All that being said, you don't use either solenoid for forward gear.
Have you checked voltage to the green wire when it happens, maybe you have a bad shift switch throwing the lower unit into neutral momentarily.