Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

[GoldLS1]

So my boat loves me not again.... 87 85hp Force:

The boat has ran fine all month, I've had it out every weekend and a few days during the week (duck hunting!!), UNTIL TODAY:

My starter motor wouldn't stop spinning this morning? I didn't realize this until after a short 10 minute boat ride. When I killed the motor, I heard the starter motor still spinning. I ended up getting it to stop by disconnecting the power from the battery. When I went to hook it back up, the motor tried to start! The key was in the off position. I even tried to put the boat in gear and connect the battery... the motor turned over and tried to start while in gear!! The neutral saftey switch worked the day before and everyday before that.

Ended up letting it fire up (turned the key to on and it started right up when I tapped the cable to the battery). Left the positive terminal off the battery and limped it back to the ramp due to my trim being high and no way to raise it back up when I got to the ramp (the lake is VERY shallow).


Any idea why the starter motor is "stuck" and how to trouble shoot or fix it??

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Solenoid is stuck on, read bad. Or the key switch has bellied up. Or a short in your harness. I would start with the solenoid. Take off the heavy wire that goes to the starter. Use a piece of wire and tap between the other large solenoid terminal that goes to the starter and the small solenoid terminal that comes from the key switch. The solenoid should click. If it doesn't, bad stuck solenoid. That's where I would start anyway.

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

It's not unusual that starter solenoid gets stuck due to arcing and then gets welded. As mentioned, you can disconnect the positive of the battery terminal and then take a reading across the two main big terminal off the solenoid and if it reads less than 1 ohm then the solenoid is stuck. You can try opening it up and de-stuck the movable contact by prying it and then cleaning all mating contacts smooth and shiny. If you do not know how to read or don't have an ohmmeter, then you can do a simple test by disconnecting the coil wire connection (small terminal from the solenoid). Re-attach the battery positive terminal, and if the starter engages, it's definitely a welded contacts on the solenoid. Open and investigate.

 

[fucawi]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

If you are a tight *** you can drill out the rivits and clean up the inside .turning the contacts over in some cases ..then its like new ...

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Thanks GA_Boater and Jiggz... I do have an ohm meter and hope to check it out tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what I find.

THANKS AGAIN!!


Oh and zakman=spam!

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Well finally got to go check the solenoid (between the rain and work!!)... it only had 0.2 OHM between the two big posts so I guess it's bad. One more issue: When I looked online for a replace, mine looks nothing like the one it's supposed to be?

Mine looks like:


The one that shows to be correct looks like:



Is that a problem?

 

[fucawi]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

No problem provided you can physically fit it ....drill out those 4 rivits on the bottom pull off the plate and sort it out ..quick easy and cheap..

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Someones already change it to a Ford.
Rebuild or clean the starter.Use a TINY bit of white lithim grease on the worm gear under the bendix.
Sent U a PM.
Fill out the profile.You might be close to someone who can help.J

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

I'm all about cheap, but I need this boat to not leave me stranded when it's freezing while duck hunting in the winter. I don't mind paying extra to have reliability or higher quality.

Any differences in the two (ford vs OE)? What ford did this solenoid come off of anyway? It sure left my boat Found Off Road Dead!! Wait until I tell my ford loving cousin!!

Filled out my location... Thought I already did - noob move!! PM replied.

Huge thanks again for all the help. Duck season restarts next weekend!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!



No reason to ever be stranded or worry about it because of a starter problem with a Force. The ignition is self energising and with a good length of stout rope, the engine can be pull started (with the key in run position) with the battery dead or the starter inoperable.

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

I do know about that trick and thought I was going to have to try it this past go round. I guess I'm more worried about being able to trim my motor up. Is there a way to quickly add a manual trim if I have to pull the battery leads again? With the shallow runs I need to be able to run the motor up bairly in the water, drop it to run across the lake, and back up high again for the shallow by the ramp. Last time it was a LONG boat ride w/ the motor up high.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Ah, well, that's a different story. However, the trim takes its power from the battery side of the solenoid. SO, the thing to do would be to carry a 1/2 inch wrench and disconnect the starter motor lead from the other side of the solenoid. That way, you would still have power to the trim system AND you would not need to worry about damaging the charging system by running the engine without the battery load. If you are really worried, run a separate #10 wire from the trim system grounds directly to the battery. Then if you have an engine problem, simply disconnect the engine ground wire and the starter will not turn

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Hummmm wish I would have known all this info last weekend!

Frank that is some food for thought. I'm not sure how common it is for the solenoids to go bad? I have a box of tools in the boat, I'll know next time to take the wire loose, pull start the motor, and have tilt/trim the rest of the way - then add the ground wire after the 2nd one dies (if it ever does again).

Thanks again guys...

 

[fucawi]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Oh no never jerry jerry Never ever put any grease on an Inertia drive starter ..this sticks the two parts together so it wont function and attracts dirt which also make it stick ..it should be like a rifle barrel oiled nut not oily ...WD 40 is 10 % oil and 90% parafin ideal ...dont use petrol or it will rust and stop working again

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

This is what the manual says as far as applying lube to the starter pinion and it's shaft. Every 30 days of operation in Fresh water or 15 days in sea water. Apply lubricant to the pinion gear and its shaft! See attached pic. And I understand there is a possibility it'll collect dust and make the gear get stuck in the shaft. Of course, that's not impossible but obviously the chance of that happening is far less with grease than if there's none! Of course, it has to be the right lube also. The manual recommends US Marine Lube T2961 which is a bearing grade grease.

 

[fucawi]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

written before the days of WD 40 ..with all things starter motor if its working leave it alone .....

 

[GA_Boater]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

written before the days of wd 40 ..with all things starter motor if its working leave it alone .....

wd 40?

 

[Jiggz]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

One thing I learned while in the military especially when working in harsh environment like the desert or at sea is to religiously follow your preventive maintenance requirement and schedule. Just because things are working and waiting until they don't belongs to the old days and maybe to some equipment operating in a non-harsh environment like a ceiling fan or maybe light bulbs.
Preventive maintenance is not like "Fire and Forget" thing. Instead it has to be done at proper intervals to work properly. You can't grease a starter pinion and shaft and forget all about it until it's rusted and stuck. Instead do check it at required periodic intervals and clean and replace the grease if it starts to collect dust. As for WD40, you are right it wasn't that long ago when it came into the market as WD40 but we've used it for a very long time as early as late 70's but was called water displacement lubricant.

 

[GoldLS1]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

Well I had to borrow my buddies boat these past two weekends because the boat won't start at ALL now!! LOL

I'm confident the solenoid is good now and is hooked up correctly. I have a bad feeling my ignition switch might be bad. I put a meter on it and while the ohm between the battery and start position on the back of the switch was 0.4... when I hook up the battery up and test the start (yellow) wire on the back of the switch I get no voltage. The choke gets voltage and works.

Does this sound like a bad ignition switch?

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Starter won't disengage... AT ALL!?!?!

With the switch in start position there should be zero ohms between the battery and start terminals and and 12 volts between the start terminal and ground.

If you suspect a bad ignition switch, again, no reason not to use the boat. Simply use a short length of #16 wire between the yellow wire on the solenoid and the battery connection. The solenoid will click closed and the starter motor will crank. Since the ignition is self energising, if the ignition switch is in run position, the engine will start and run.

White and blue wires are the kill circuit so if the engine cranks and you get no spark, disconnect the white wires from the engine terminal. So, you see: with a little knowledge about the engine, there is no reason to be stuck on the water due to simple problems. As long as the engine has not melted a piston or blown an ignition component, it is relatively easy to limp back to home port.

However, before jumping to confusions, check to see that the shift linkage is depressing the white button on the neutral interlock switch, located below the bottom carb, opposite the starter.