Starter engages the flywheel but won't spin the engine

[WinnerCougar74]

1974 Chrysler 135 hp, Took it out to the lake today. Starter engages onto the flywheel but won't spin the engine enough to start it. The starter will turn the flywheel about 3 or 4 teeth. I can turn the engine by hand by grabbing the flywheel and turning it. One time it did spin the engine for at least 15-20 seconds but it would not do it again after that. I have a 2 battery setup with a Perko switch. Both batteries were charged today. Exact same problem with either battery and in the "Both" position on the main switch. 12.5 volts on both batteries. 12.5 volts on the always hot side of the solenoid using the engine block ground. Only 8.5 volts at the starter when trying to start the engine. Cleaned all of the power connections at the solenoid and starter and the ground connection on the block. Starter motor is very warm to the touch. Previous owner replaced the starter. It's about 4 years old now. What is the best way to trouble shoot this problem?

 

[Nordin]

Winner74 it sounds like the solenoid is bad.
Bad connections inside where the "switch" actually a copper bar is closing when activated.
It also can be a bad starter, but as you have only 8,5 Volts at the starter positive terminal there seams to be a voltage drop at the solenoid.

If you have the Motorola battery CD ignition with a distributor the voltage at the blue wire (ignition) must be more then 9 Volts, otherwise you will have problems with the ignition system to create a good spark.
The engine will have problem to start.

 

[jerryjerry05]

If the starter engages but doesn't turn the motor, that doesn't sound like a solenoid problem
My first guess is the starter is bad?? take it apart and check the brushes???
My second guess is the connections are bad?? check the grounds and the battery cable for loose or swelled cable???
#3 is the compression on one or more cyl. is low?? do a compression test.
Remove all the plugs and see if it turns over then?
Use a good compression tester. The Chinese have flooded the WORLD
with crappy tools and products.

 

[The Force power]

The only thing I can add to the good advice already given is;
Jump/by pass the solenoid to verify if good
use booster cables to energize the starter to verify if cables are good
Still not turning over? inspect the starter

 

[foodfisher]

Load test batteries?

 

[The Force power]

Load test batteries?

Dang it! forgot to mention that lol

 

[WinnerCougar74]

Thanks for the good advise. Disconnected battery side cable from solenoid and jumped the solenoid. No change at all. Pulled plugs and starter would spin the motor. Checked compression. Cold motor (it's about 45 degrees outside) exactly 90 on all 4 cylinders. Remember I'm running a 2 battery setup, both charged yesterday, same no matter if the switch is in 1,2 or both position. My money is on a weak starter. The number on the starter is 50-853869, there is a smaller number 4412028 and also what looks like a date 05/24/02. So this starter is prolly 18 years old. Is this the correct starter? 50-853869

 

[pnwboat]

Part# 50-853869 is equivalent to an Arco 5393 starter which is used by many of the 3 and 4 cylinder Chrysler and Force outboards.

Like Jerry mentioned...make sure that all of your battery connections, both Positive and Negative are clean and making good contact. If you haven't already done so, wire brush all of the pos. and neg. battery lug connections. If that doen't make any difference, then I'd look at replacing the starter.

NOTE: You can get a cheap overseas manufactured starter, however, the quality is hit or miss. As long as you don't push it, it'll probably be OK. The US manufactured ones are more expensive, but the quality is significantly better.

 

[WinnerCougar74]

I have been thinking, yeah I know scary, could 2 batteries be bad? The answer is yes so I will try to check them both out soon. They are less than 2 years old. This was a very hot and dry summer. I left the batteries in the boat all summer. Maybe the heat evaporated the water out of both batteries. The charger I had did not indicate any problem but who knows. I will be worth checking out first. It didn't start perfectly a few weeks ago so I guess it's possible. Better double check the starter ground while I'm at it. I guess I could just run some jumper cables from the battery directly to the starter. That would eliminate many things. Thanks for the advise on the cheaper starters as well.

 

[The Force power]

take the starter apart and check the brushes armature etc.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Just rebuild/clean the starter you have.
Double check the battery cable for weak/soft
spots. Bad grounds.
Those part#s are hard to look up.
Post a pic?

 

[WinnerCougar74]

I have a parts catalog for this exact motor. The starter part number is 85955-1, the Sierra cross-referenced part number is 18-5613 and the brush kit is 18-5697. Some say it real tricky to rebuild these starters and other people say some of the rebuilt ones are junk. I guess if this one last 18 years it's probably a good and rebuilding it is a good idea. I would hate to rebuild it and it end up being junk again. If there is a known high grade new starter available I think I would just buy that. Are the Sierra starters good?

 

[Nordin]

Winner if that is the starter that came with the engine from factory I would say it is a premium quality starter, maybe Bosch or Prestolite brand and I should rebuild it instead of buying a new cheap Chines crap starter.
If the commutator is not to worn you could do it your self otherwise leave it to a shop that rebuild starter etc.
Clean the whole starter housing, sand the the commutator with a fine paper 800 or 1200 grid.
Check the brush springs and change the brushes.
I suppose the brushes are solder to the armature and you need a lager typ of solder iron to change them, minimum 200W to solder new brushes in.
Put a drop of oil to the bushings when reassemble.

 

[jerryjerry05]

The one you have is easy to rebuild.
The Sierra ones are the latest Chinese JUNK!!(and not the boat)
If you want a rebuilt one?? ARCO starters are the only way to go.
They're a US company and have good quality.
A little expensive but you get what you pay for.
But from the looks of your starter?? I'd just clean it up and use it.

 

[dingbat]

Nine times out of ten the issue with a problematic starter is a burnt winding in the armature.

Unless you test the armature (growler) I wouldn’t throw anymore time and effort into rebuilding the thing.

I went through this last year. Inspection turned up a burnt winding. A new Arco starter for my motor was under $100

 

[WinnerCougar74]

OK I installed a new starter from API and now it's like a new engine. I also bought a rebuild kit so I'll rebuild the old one I took off and have a back up for $18. As far as I can tell API makes the starter. So many of the other ones are junk made by someone else. All I did is check the reviews and the reviews tell the story. Time will tell.

 

[Redbarron%%]

I tried a cheap starter and the parts were crap. The metal cups that allow the spring to collapse and not bind and twist were soft aluminum and smashed out of shape. The machining of the threads of the spiral that spins the gear up bind and then the gear does not come up. Ant then the shafts are soft steel and a kickback will bend them.
So for the heck of it I tried two of them. At least the parts of the let me put back together a starter with one of my shafts and cups and spring got me a starter that works well.
However, be smart and just buy a good one in the first place.
I did the research for you and a small one time gratuity to offset the cost of the scientific trials would be appreciated for Christmas.