Started the deck removal! Questions

[dubnvento]

Follow the link and look at the last picture. It is off the 3/4" plywood I removed from my boat to access the orginal deck. Now I have several questions. It appears that I can break of the old fiberglass and access the old wood deck and remove it. I see where they screwed it in. Once this is done and if the stringers are not rotten can I put down the new wood and use herculiner to seal it instead of glass the new wood? Or would I have to reglass the new wood anywase. Any help!

http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,429,00.html

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

Follow the link and look at the last picture. It is off the 3/4" plywood I removed from my boat to access the orginal deck. Now I have several questions. It appears that I can break of the old fiberglass and access the old wood deck and remove it. I see where they screwed it in. Once this is done and if the stringers are not rotten can I put down the new wood and use herculiner to seal it instead of glass the new wood? Or would I have to reglass the new wood anywase. Any help!

http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,429,00.html

IMHO there is no substitute for a sound, properly treated 1/2" ply floor, glued and screwed to solid stringers then covered with a layer of glass cloth. Herculiner won't hold it all together and keep it water tight. You could use it as a final flooring material but it will be hell on bare skin.

BTW, cute little runabout!, My family's first boat was a fiberglass, lapstrake design 14 ft Larson with a 40 hp Merc. This was back in the 60's so it was probably a 50's model. It was built like a tank.

 

[wildmaninal]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

Follow the link and look at the last picture. It is off the 3/4" plywood I removed from my boat to access the orginal deck. Now I have several questions. It appears that I can break of the old fiberglass and access the old wood deck and remove it. I see where they screwed it in. Once this is done and if the stringers are not rotten can I put down the new wood and use herculiner to seal it instead of glass the new wood? Or would I have to reglass the new wood anywase. Any help!

http://www.shareaproject.com/pages/projectTut,p,429,00.html

Cutting the fiberglass sometimes would be cleaner, breaking or ripping the fiberglass out can lead you into cracking the fiberglass beyond the point that you intended to stop at, (past experience). A method I used myself was taking a skill saw, setting the depth (once you know the depth) so you won't go through the bottom of the boat, then cut the flooring out in sections. Note that the depth changes in the inner hull so you might half to adjust the skill saw. I agree with Boomyal that 1/2 ply will do the trick, that's what I bought for my project, and intend to buy for future projects. Then cover the deck with the fiberglass then if you want to use the herculiner use it, I thought about going that route myself (just not with the same brand), but I put carpet in my boat instead. I can't remember if herculiner makes different colors or not. Just my 2 cents

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

try to find 5ply 1/2 exterior grade plywood finished one side, (means smooth). most is 3 ply at HD and Lowes. go to a real lumber yard and they will have it. do not use pressure treated!!!!

 

[ezmobee]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

You're going to be replacing 2 layers of floor (at least one of them probably soggy) with 1 layer of 1/2". Think how much weight you'll be shaving off! I'll bet you'll have a noticable performace gain.

 

[Robj]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

You will need to glass it in. Remember to give the wood a couple of coats of resin on all sides and edges to seal it. Run the ply such that the grain of the outside ply is running perpendicilar to the stringers.

Good luck and have a great day,

Rob.

 

[dubnvento]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

So let me see if I undersand. I will need to cut the fiberglass around the edges of the floor where it starts to go up the insides of the boat and then replace the floor with 1/2" 5 ply plywood and glass it.

Do you usally glass it after the floor is layed in the boat and screwed in?

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

So let me see if I undersand. I will need to cut the fiberglass around the edges of the floor where it starts to go up the insides of the boat and then replace the floor with 1/2" 5 ply plywood and glass it.

Do you usally glass it after the floor is layed in the boat and screwed in?

In my project, the flooring was sound several inches out from the hull bond. That is where I cut it. I then screwedand glued a 3" strip of properly treated ply under that remnant ledge, leaving half of it for the new flooring to sit on. All ply was 'painted all around' with epoxy to seal it.

Once done I cut and set the new floor in. Again all new flooring was epoxied all around. Once screwed and epoxy glued to the stringers, I glassed over the whole shebang.

 

[dubnvento]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

great pic and explanation. It really helps.

 

[csendker]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

I just yanked out the decking on my 1970 Luger and found a mess. Saturated styrofoam (big shock), rotten stringers, nightmare stringer setup, no drainage (after the foam was out, I had at least 1" standing water trapped in each cell).

Don't be surprised to start with a re-decking and end with a whole new structure. But as said, I bet I tossed a couple hundred pounds of junk. The PO said "she runs like snot, but rides a little low...". Miracle she floated at all. Anyways, I've yanked everything out now and am wrapping up the clean-up. Next is templates and then cutting some marine ply.

Everything I've read screams "Marine Ply", "Resin everything to saturation, an pay particular attention to the edges of the ply", "Drainage holes, drainage holes, drainage holes...", etc. My biggest decision now is to foam or not.

After 30~40 years, I guess we should expect to do a little rebuilding to make these right again. It's the price of running a classic I guess. My thinking is don't scrimp on the structure, make it solid and make it right. I want a safe boat, I'll comprimise on the bling.

I had a hole in the back where the PO dropped in a bilge pump, so I could see the thickness of the floor. I set my circular saw to just about that depth and cut a 3~4" slot right up the centerline of the boat (deepest part...). Then I carefully cut a couple of lines perpendicular and just pulled the decking up. Rotten = not good adhesion. Popped right up. Then it was many, many days with a flat wrecking bar & a hefty hammer. Just be careful to keep the bar parallel with the hull so you don't blast a hole in it. Next up is the grinder, but I'm outside & grinding in the snow doesn't strike me as a smart thing to do.

Oh, and while you're in there, look real close at your transom too.

Here's the mess that I found (you can see the slot I cut towards the back):

 

[Robj]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

Csendker, that looks like a real mess. I doubt that the OEM built it that way, I could be wrong but that set-up does not look right. I would do some research to determine how it was originally built and rebuild it that way.

Dubnvento, when you remove the old floor, I mean deck, grind about 4 to 5 inches of the hull to glass the new floor, I mean deck to. Use 24 or 36 grit abrasive discs to get a good mechanical bond between the old glass and the new when you tab the new deck.

Good luck and have a great day,

Rob.

 

[csendker]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

I doubt that the OEM built it that way

Luger was a kit boat manufacturer; OEM = backyard. A never-ending source of amusement. The instructions actually show a similar grid, but way nicer than mine. Don't want to hijack here so I started my own thread.

Dubnvento-

Did you remove the entire decking or did you leave a perimeter strip? The new decking should be cut to fit and then coated to saturation with epoxy resin, paying particular attention to soaking the edges. Epoxy glue to the stringers and expoy/glass the perimeter. That's why you need to grind around the perimeter - to adhere the glass to it. Don't glass over old resin. But if you left a perimeter strip, then epoxy/glass to that.

 

[Robj]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

It is OK to glass to old resin and in the repair you will be doing exacty that. Getting a good bond depends on the prep work. Grind it like I stated earlier, wipe with acetone, and start glassing. You can use poly resin and get good results. When I rebuilt mine, I could not justify the increased cost of epoxy. Poly works just fine, is cheaper, and I am sure I will get rid of the boat long before it starts to rot. One thing you may want to consider if you want to keep this boat is using CCA pressure treated ply. Resin bonds to it fine, as long as the wood is DRY, and it won't rott.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[csendker]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

I've read in many places that poly resin doesn't adhere too well to wood? Can you use poly over epoxy or don't they mix too well?

And if you glass over the old resin, make sure it's stable. Personally, I want to grind off as much as possible and glue to original hull wherever possible.

 

[Robj]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

It is true that poly does not stick to epoxy. In response to your other question, most boats are built with wood stringers and floor and with poly resin. My boat rotted out because it was kept outside in the rain by the PO, and the stringers were not sealed very well. If you do it properly with poly resin, the boat should last much longer than you care to keep it. My boat, built as it was, lasted 15 years, with my repair it will probably last at least another 20, which is good enough for me.

Remember your boat is built with old resin. Just do your prep work and you will be fine.

Have a great day,

Rob.

 

[salty87]

Re: Started the deck removal! Questions

edit- i'll start a new thread instead