Spark or No Spark?

SusieQ 21

Seaman
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
54
I know an ex-professional Evinrude dealer/mechanic who now sells Mercury and is about to retire who said he always had bad luck with cdi stuff so he stopped buying them.

You say your stator failed regarding the charge system. Something is causing the spark not to jump enough.

Is that proof? No, but it points to issues with that component.

To answer your question, if the spark doesn't meet speck is that considered a failure. In my book yes.

Personally I just replace some ignition coils this summer that met spec including the spark jump test. Motor started better and idled better.

To rule out other things, have you tried starting it with the remote control unplugged at the motor? Or at least the spark jump test.

You have improved spark when you disconnect the switch so you may have multiple issues.

Everyone can sense frustration from you so the only thing I can suggest is carry on. You definitely have persistence.
Keep in mind, the manual states failure of the (stator) charge coil test results in stator replacement OR correction of ground fault issues in wiring / connections. Again, removal and inspection of (new) stator and associated wiring revealed nothing unusual.
I agree with your idea there may be multiple issues. Hard to say what may have been done before I bought the boat, of which I remain unaware. I know from the condition and array of disconnected wires under the dash, which I thought were remnants of old electronic gear (fish finder, radio, etc.) the old key switch had been messed with. That’s why I replaced the key switch and re-wired it (hopefully correctly). I’m guessing; the previous owner encountered problems with the (MWS?) system warning, since the alarm horn and check engine warning (on tach) were not operating correctly. Check engine light (vacuum) came on (stayed-on) even during pre-check and if engine was NOT running. Changed vacuum switch anyway. Tach quit registering RPM’s soon after. Btw, a new tach solved the warning system issues, but RPM’s still do not register, even after installing a new regulator/rectifier.
I’m becoming more and more convinced, there is a grounding issue somewhere, including in the starting / charge circuit. As soon as the weather warms a few degrees (hopefully tomorrow), I’m going to attempt checking (by-passing) existing ground circuits to see if it makes any differences.
Lastly, I want to say that I sincerely appreciate your sensing my frustrations AND persistence. Although I’m doubtful either is worthy of praise, a few kind words of encouragement go a long, long way to keep me hanging-in. I submit that comments like “RIP” do little to help anyone nor solve the issues. Probably better to say nothing!
Anyway, Thank you, SCM.
 

saltchuckmatt

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
2,736
Okay....one q you didn't answer.

Have you started the motor or done the jump test with the outboard unconnected from the remote control?

You can isolate some of the grounds by doing that...
Or a ignition switch that hasn't been wired correctly.
 

SusieQ 21

Seaman
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
54
Okay....one q you didn't answer.

Have you started the motor or done the jump test with the outboard unconnected from the remote control?

You can isolate some of the grounds by doing that...
Or a ignition switch that hasn't been wired correctly.
No, I have not. That, my friend, is part of my plan for tomorrow. Many, many thanks!
 

SusieQ 21

Seaman
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
54
Note: This post was also posted on THT.

I’ve read that some members complain when solutions to problems and subsequent successful repairs go unposted. That said, in the interest of addressing those complaints and posting thanks for the THT help with the successful repair of my ‘96 Evinrude 150 Looper, I offer the following.

Rather than repeat a very long, and likely boring, history of repeated failures and self-imposed misdirected efforts, I’ll refer to my earlier posts dating as far back to 2021 entitled “Weak Spark - 1996 Evinrude 150 V6 60 deg Looper” and “Evinrude 150 V6 Lean Condition.” I hope contributing members and/or interested readers may see this post and, if interested in the outcome, refer back to those earlier posts. That said, I’ll skip to the results of my most recent efforts.

Before addressing the fixes, I would like to stress my sincere appreciation for all the help along the way, including the encouragement to perservere the most arduous and frustrating project on which I can remember encountering. There are many contributors deserving of recognition.

So, here’s the end result: The “trailer beast” in the driveway starts and….RUNS! Turns-out, there were multiple issues, as was suggested by a couple members. I found the following contributory (three) issues: A bad ground at the rectifier/regulator; a bad (loose) connection at the helm key switch; and a leaking fuel vapor separator.

I’m not certain which condition contributed most to inconsistent voltage / resistance measurements, and ultimately to weak spark. Unfortunately, I cleaned and retorqued the machine screws on the rectifier and discovered / repaired the loose key switch connection simultaneously, before re-testing for spark. Likely, the key switch was the major culprit. Regardless of cause, full spark (arcing 7/16” gap) was achieved on all six cylinders. So, I decided to attempt starting the engine.

I connected an auxiliary fuel tank (with fresh fuel and new primer bulb) and primed the fuel system. Since all fuel had long since been drained from the system, and in addition I had removed, cleaned and re-installed the oil tank (with new primer bulb), I was cautious about starting, fearing possible inadequate oil supply. In addition to priming the VRO2 / oil system, I filled a small spray bottle with (mixed) fuel and sprayed into carbs. I was pleasantly surprised when it fired, although it didn’t run long….maybe 4 or 5 seconds until fuel spray was depleted. With each repeated attempt, the engine ran a bit longer. Once it continued to run, I was pleased to learn “cold start” was correctly operating and restarts were accomplished using the enrichment switch. Unfortunately, I noticed a very, very small amount of fuel bubbling from the top of the of the fuel bracket at the vapor separator gasket. I assume the leak was contributing to inadequate fuel supply, which may account for the inconsistent RPM’s and starting issues I was experiencing. So, I tightened the screws on the separator a bit, which seemed to improve the running time and achieve a more consistent RPM. Finally, the engine seem to settle-in and run smoother. RPM’s could be increased by moving the throttle linkage. The engine continued to run until I killed the key switch. Seemingly, problem solved.

The engine still needs a bit of tweaking, since all carbs were rebuilt, and probably require minor adjustments; as well, the timing was reset. That said, the engine sounded very strong, particularly considering it was running on muffs. Since I had rebuilt the VRO2 a couple years ago, I intend to remove the fuel bracket and related components to replace the vapor separator gasket and check for any other possible irregularities. Other than that, I’m anxious to address a few other boat (non-engine) issues and get her in the water.

Bottom line, the engine starts, runs, and sounds very strong. Likely, the shakedown cruise won’t occur until next spring. I can’t wait. It’s been a longtime coming!

Again, many, many thanks to all for your help and encouragement over the past few years. Yes, I’m embarrassed to admit it’s taken so long. Otoh, in my defense, this was my first (and hopefully last) experience working on a 2-cycle outboard. Needless to say, I have learned a great deal. Also, my efforts have been part time, since I’m only at the boat site in spring and fall, for a total of about 4 months of the year. Regardless of time and efforts, I hope future pleadings for help will not be required anytime soon. That said, never say never. I’m reminded that some of the old time 2-cycle mechanics don’t call Evinrude Loopers, “voodoo engines” for no reason. LOL.

Merry Christmas to all!

P.S. I seem to be a glutton for punishment. Given previous failures with my Evinrude 150, I thought I may be reconsider a smaller craft. That said, I couldn’t resist rescuing my old 1971 Johnson 4 HP from my barn loft, where it had been stored for the past 50 years. I bought it new, and couldn’t have used it more than 5-10 times, and only in fresh water. The exterior still appears as new. A set of new plugs has produced no fire, so the flywheel needs to be removed for a check on points, condensers, coils, etc. Last time I used it, it ran perfectly, so I don’t anticipate big problems, certainly less complicated that the 150 Looper. Regardless, wish me luck. If issues arise for which I need help, I’ll start a new thread.
 

racerone

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
37,968
Coils will be cracked on the 4 hp.----New ones are cheaper today than 50 years ago.-----Condensers will need to be replaced.----Points can be cleaned.----Will need a new water pump impeller.
 

SusieQ 21

Seaman
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
54
Coils will be cracked on the 4 hp.----New ones are cheaper today than 50 years ago.-----Condensers will need to be replaced.----Points can be cleaned.----Will need a new water pump impeller.
Thanks, Racerone.
Hadn’t considered cracked coils, but makes sense. Other part replacements assumed, but thought I’d remove flywheel for inspection prior to ordering. Guessing points can be cleaned the old way using newspaper, at least that I what I used to do with my old Chevies. For sure, replacement of water pump impeller is on the “to do” list, as soon as I can be certain engine will run. Other than carb components, don’t know why it wouldn’t. We’ll see. Thanks again.
 

saltchuckmatt

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2019
Messages
2,736
Nice to get such detailed feedback. Always helps when trying to deal with complete strangers!😉

Best of luck with that beast.
 

SusieQ 21

Seaman
Joined
Jan 5, 2022
Messages
54
Sometimes it boils down to saying the right thing AT THE RIGHT TIME. As they say, "timing is everything." Couldn’t have done it without you. Thanks again for your help.
 
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