Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Joe,<br /><br />Nothing I found on the net or in your post supports your position that Buffet's Margaritaville song has influenced the number of boats in Florida. <br /><br />So I will stand by my original statement that anyone who believes that Buffet's Margaritaville song has increased the number of boats in Florida is naive.<br /><br />Sorry if you don't like it, but facts is facts. <br /><br />Mark.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Joe,<br /><br />We were not talking about the big picture. We were talking specifically about Buffet's song about Margaritaville and the credibility of anyone who used it as the primary cause of an influx of boating in Florida.<br /><br />That song no more made people move to Florida to and buy boats than Frank Sinatra made people move to NYC.<br /><br />Mark.
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Your still [edit] missing the point.<br /><br />
<br /> <br />The Conundrum of “Margaritaville” Continues <br /><br />By Jim Kalvin <br /><br />Sorry folks, but I just can’t hold off on this topic any longer.<br /><br />As a Florida native, boater, fisherman, sailor, and mariner, all of this “Jimmy Buffett Margaritaville” garbage has to be called for what it is. <br /><br />I mean, think about it… For over thirty years, Buffett has been going all around the world singing the praises of life afloat - most specifically in the Florida Keys or the islands of the Caribbean. From Seattle to New York, and from North Dakota to the southern extremes of Texas, he has been inspiring people to go south, get a boat, and live the Jimmy Buffett life-style. <br /><br />His writings and music are rife with references to certain bars, islands, restaurants, bays, and inlets that have been immortalized, and have become destinations for millions of visitors over time. Along with the locations, a healthy dose (or an unhealthy dose - depending upon your point of view) of alcohol and marijuana is added to the mix in order to provide the mind-altering perception that one is able to escape reality, and come to Paradise with Mr. Buffett. Or, as in his latest smash hit co-produced with Alan Jackson, he says that your ills can be cured by walking off of your job, getting drunk, climbing aboard your boat, and heading, once again, south to Margaritaville. <br /><br />But what is one really going to find when one reaches the City Limits of Margaritaville? <br /><br />I believe that most would be surprised to say the least. <br /><br />First of all, you won’t be able to find a dock to put your boat. If your boat is on a trailer, you will have to get up pretty early to find a parking place at the boat ramp - if you can find a boat ramp that you are able to use. And marina space? Forget it! Marinas in Florida are disappearing as fast as redevelopment permits can be obtained, and we are not getting any new facilities anytime soon. <br /><br />Secondly, if you are able to put your boat into the water, you are likely going to be faced with massive “no entry” areas, extended (miles long) “slow speed” zones, or Marine Protected Areas (no fishing, anchoring, diving, or other uses allowed). <br /><br />One would be inclined to ask why it should be so hard to come down to enjoy that which Mr. Buffett promotes. And the irony is that it is Mr. Buffett himself that has led the charge to curtail pleasure boating throughout the State of Florida through his financial support and direct involvement with Save the Manatee Club. <br /><br />A good idea at the time of inception, the “Club” now pays its directors much more than it spends on conservation efforts or anything having to do with “saving manatees.” And the modus operandi of the group is to sue individuals, municipalities, and our Government agencies to curtail water access throughout the State. Millions upon millions of dollars have been stuffed into the salaries, retirement accounts, and expense accounts of SMC directors, while their long-range objective has been to close one waterway after another. <br /><br />Current marina owners have been sued, and potential builders of new facilities face impossible mountains of regulatory red tape due to the whinings, legal maneuverings, and heavy-handed tactics of these “for-hire” non-profit environmentalists. As well, single-family home-owners are now being stripped of their ability to legally keep their boat in the water behind their homes. And, Buffett’s name is wielded like a weapon in legislative committees and agency staff meetings. Strangely, he is touted as the end-all, be-all, do-all of aquatic resource management by his drones at these gatherings.<br /><br />Funny, though I was a fan of his during the 70’s and 80’s, I don’t remember ever seeing “Dr.” or “PHD” in front of, or behind his name. <br /><br />So, Mr. Buffett - who is probably personally responsible for more boaters coming to Florida than any other single cause (including the Marine Industries Association or our Tourist Development Councils) - makes it possible for SMC to wage their war against those that call themselves “Parrot-Heads.” The very people who are responsible for Mr. Buffett’s wealth are the ones that his “Club” is attacking - and has been attacking since the mid 70’s. While he could have been using his considerable influence over the years helping with boater education, safety initiatives, and real resource protection measures, Mr. Buffett has, instead, chosen to wage a silent war against all aquatic resource users. By making targets of his fans in the name of “saving the manatee,” he has done the manatees, the State of Florida, and the entire aquatic resource a severe injustice.<br /><br />Is this just my opinion? <br /><br />You might like to think so. But the Florida Fish & Wildlife Conservation Commissioners might tend to agree. They have publicly lambasted the leaders of Save the Manatee Club recently, and on numerous occasions, for misleading the public, lying to the Commissioners, costing the State huge sums of money fighting their base-less lawsuits, and for ignoring available science in pursuit of their “no-growth / anti-access” agenda.<br /><br />Come down to “Margaritaville”? <br /><br />To do what? Stand on the bridge, and look at where you might have been able to go boating years ago?<br /><br />Buffett is taking your money to fight your ability to enjoy the very things that he has sung and written about. But don’t worry - he will always be able to enjoy the Oceans. His sea-plane, and his motor yacht will take him far away from the waters of Florida that he is helping to close down - one waterway at a time.<br /><br />I’m just sorry that Alan Jackson has been duped into believing in the myth of “Margaritaville.” <br />------------------------------<br /><br />
 

Stumpknocker

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Dec 11, 2003
Messages
774
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Hell boys.... by the time the grannies of the bays finish eatn all them Manatees they won't have any leverage left anyway. No Manatees, no Manatee Zones needed. Sad but true. Using a poor creature to further their sick political adgendas. They probably don't even really care.
 

fullsize_chevy

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
31
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

For what it's worth, I am an avid fishermen...probably twice a week by boat if I can get out in the evening. I have a deep respect for nature and conservation. I can't say that I don't keep a couple sandwiches worth of grouper, snapper, or dolphin in the freezer, but I surely release far more than I keep. I heed manatee speed zone signs very diligently. This isn't to say that I agree with them totally. It's obvious that many, but not all, have been placed as deterrents to power boaters. I know it is aggravating to be "floating by" at no wake speed in a boat that's rigged to do in excess of 55. It's especially aggravating to be forced to do so for prolonged periods of time just to reach the inlet opening. What's worse is coming back in the dark at exceptionally slow speed when you're already tired and just want to be back at your dock. I have witnessed countless manatee in the area. On the other hand, some people have never, or only rarely, have seen a manatee. With this in mind, I, personally feel like manatee slow zones can do good. I have personally witnessed a lot of them with large scars. Some people have seen manatees but have never seen a scarred one. In this specific area, I AGREE with the slow zones. I keep the engines at a pinch above idle...NO WAKE. Now, there are areas I have been, other friends places on the water, where I have never seen a manatee and have traversed the area many times. My friends in that area, also, have never seen them. They feel the speed zones are uncalled for. Areas like this may fall under using them as power boating deterrent. It's a broad, complicated issue with more caviats than one can count.
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Joe,<br /><br />So what you are saying is you agree with me. <br /><br />Congrats.<br /><br />Mark
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Mark, are you looking for a rise out of me?<br /><br /><br />OK, <br /><br />Please don't move to Florida. ;)
 

Sea Six

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Nov 7, 2004
Messages
191
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

I've heard the problem is compounded in the Ft Myers area by the people on Sanibel / Captiva. Not the Parotheads you talk about, more like "Ding Darling" heads. You can't even leave the lights on at night so you don't confuse the turtles!
 

Mark42

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2003
Messages
9,334
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Joe,<br /><br />No. Not trying to get anyone angry. But I have to admit that I am totally confused as to what you are trying to convey to me at this point. <br /><br />Your last statement: "Your still not missing the point" is confusing to me, and the article you posted ends up saying that " I’m just sorry that Alan Jackson has been duped into believing in the myth of “Margaritaville", which goes in line with what I had posted.<br /><br />This is going nowhere fast. I feel like we are having two different conversations at once.<br /><br />Lets just drop it in the interest of good relations.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />Mark.
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

"Your still not missing the point" <br /><br />Typo, edit out [ not ]<br /><br />My bad.<br /><br />Agreed, this thread is going nowhere.<br /><br />Fact is, through Jimmy Buffett's involvement, the SMC has been able to carry out false and misleading information campaigns to the general public about manatees being on the edge of extinction to further another agenda other than saving manatees.<br /><br />Anyone outside of Florida, and a lot of people inside the state are not aware of the issues other than what makes it into the lib press. That is unless they are rec boats who are affected.<br /><br />Save the Manatee Club has been pressing the extinction button for 20 years even though manatee counts continue to rise. Each year it continues. Manatee #'s increase and they're standing on the extinction buzzer. Each year they're giving false and misleading info to legislators, school children, and feeding it to the press. Always crying not enough is being done. Nothing is ever good enough, never enough #'s of manatees. However last year, SMC fought tooth and nail trying to defeat a bill (SB-540) that will help establish what the actual carrying capacity is for the manatee herds. Something that will help arrive at a number where we can say the manatees are saved or at least down listed as species of concern.<br /><br />But you see, if that happens, what button are they going to push? <br /><br />In the scientific community, it's agreed that the numbers are higher than just the synoptic surveys indicate. <br /><br />I'm paraphrasing, but it's thought that there are two to three manatees out there for each one counted.<br /><br />That's 6000 to 9000 manatees. Is that enough you ask?<br />Ask SMC if that's enough. Ask them why they fought against legislation that would help further study the manatee to find out.<br /><br />I'm not a manatee hater and wouldn't ever want to hit one in my boat. Every boater I know wouldn't either. However accidents happen. <br /><br />There are other causes of manatee mortality that SMC doesn't harp on because it doesn't further their real cause. For example. When lake Okeechobee drawn down and costal areas are inundated with fresh water killing the seagrass the manatee depend on. A few years back, a number of manatees were found dead. They starved to death because there was nothing for them to eat. Another concern SMC should have is how the hot water discharges they've fought so hard to make manatee sanctuaries, are doing to their natural migration habits. Another question. Why isn't SMC fighting for Ride Tides studies as hard as they are at misleading school kids and the general public that the waters are running red due to boaters.<br /><br />I think it’s OK to like manatees, it’s OK help protect them within reason based on sound science. <br /><br />It’s not OK to exploit and misrepresent.<br /><br /><br />Again, here are a few quotes.<br />=====<br />Patti Thompson - Save the Manatee Club – in a 1991 article in Florida Sportsman “What a quiet, peaceful world it would be if powerboats were banned.”<br /><br />SMC Website – “Manatees are frequently the unintended victims of mis-information.” (They didn’t specify from WHO)<br /><br />Pat Rose, Save the Manatee Club Lobbyist. Printed in the New York Times, Tuesday, February 26, 2002 in an article by Andy Revkin – “…Save the Manatee Lobbyist Pat Rose unabashedly calls manatees ‘the best, most effective growth management control tool that exists.’”<br /><br />Pat Rose - Save the Manatee Club – 1994 Article in Florida Sportsman “People in Florida have to realize that you’re going to have to put a lid on growth. And if this is the animal to do that, than so be it!”<br />========
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Joe... No offence, but I'm curious.. What's your story? You a Contractor? Maybe a realtor? Own a bunch of waterfront proprerty? Marina owner? Just a regular "average Joe" boat owner with no affilliation to special intereset groups?<br /> :confused:
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

I get the feeling you've made an assumption by your questions.<br /><br />I'm a cruiser and recreational fisherman who's tired of losing water water access. I'm a member of the Florida chapter of Coastal Conservation Association and a Member of Standing Watch.<br /><br />Why do you ask?
 

snapperbait

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 20, 2002
Messages
5,754
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Just want to know where you are comming from.. That's all...
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Gotcha. <br /><br />Here's a related story.<br /><br />Mad About Manatees<br />by Richard Simms<br />posted January 18, 2005<br /><br />Photo by Richard Simms<br />When the manatees want to "interact," you'll know it.<br /><br />
article_61232_large.jpg
<br /><br />The middle-aged woman popped up straight out of the water, her eyes gleaming even beneath the diving mask. She spat out her snorkel, and with glee normally reserved for small children at Christmas, yelled, “I swam with one. I swam with it!”<br /><br />I don’t know her name but her joy skipped across the water like a stone, bringing back memories of our first up-close encounter with a manatee.<br /><br />It was March of 1998. The ghost-like apparition passed beneath our canoe like a puff of smoke. It was hard to believe a creature as big as a boat could come that close without a whisper of sound. But manatees sail on the currents like a bird in the sky.<br /><br /> <br />No bird-like beauty here however. They have big, flat hound dog noses with droopy jowls, wiry whiskers, and tiny eyes that look into yours with an eerie dose of understanding. Manatees are an endangered species. Biologists say there are fewer than 3,000 alive, and in most years they document far more deaths than births. <br /><br />Our family has made three excursions to Crystal River, twice forsaking friends and family for the Thanksgiving holiday.<br /><br />“They always say Thanksgiving is the kickoff for manatee season,” said Fred Reed, manager of the Port Hotel Dive Shop. “This is our tourist season down here.”<br /><br />The official town motto of Crystal River, Florida -- "Where man and manatee play." From November through February the motels fill up, the restaurants hire extra help and the marinas gas up the rental boats. For the do-it-yourselfers the dive shops rent wet suits, snorkeling equipment, diving gear and a variety of boats. Or they'll take you out on a group manatee watching trips. <br /><br />“I was born and raised here," said Reed, a man with a fair amount of gray in his beard. "I was seeing manatees down in the river when I was 8 years old and didn’t know what I was looking at. I guess it was about twenty years ago when lots of people first really noticed the manatees,”<br /><br />That was before biologists figured out they are disappearing and that Crystal River is one of their most important winter refuge areas. “They say we carry about 13 or 14 percent of the state’s entire population here during the winter,” said Reed. “The U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service flies over every Tuesday to count the manatees. Last winter they peaked out at 340 on January 4. I’ve heard counts as high as 388 in years past.”<br /><br />Reed says there are about 640 acres of water in Crystal River Bay. Fed by a number of warm springs, the water temperature never falls below 70 degrees. In the Gulf of Mexico the winter temperature drops to well below 60 degrees and the manatees head for Crystal River to get warm. <br /><br />Reed says the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service first set up three refuges in Crystal River about 15 years ago. Those are areas marked off by ropes or buoys and it is a federal offense for boats, or people, to enter. At first there was a lot of resistance from the locals. “The dive shops just felt, ‘if the federal government messes with it, they’re going to take everything,” said Reed.<br /><br />But since then, four more refuges have been added, tourism has skyrocketed and locals have changed their tune. “We’re very close friends with the federal government. Now my biggest complaint is that they don’t have enough law enforcement in here.”<br /><br />There are very strict rules for manatee watching. Rent a boat at any of the marinas and you are required to watch a video about the manatees. There are times when the most popular manatee areas around the warm water springs look like a sea of snorkels. “It’s getting to be a problem," said Reed. <br /><br />He says the most important rule is boat speed. Sadly, nearly every manatee you see bears the telltale scars of an encounter with a prop. In Crystal River during manatee season your boat motor should never go above idle. <br /><br />In the water, you’re not supposed to go to the manatees. They're supposed to come to you – which they often do. When they’re in the mood for human interaction manatees can almost be a nuisance. It’s a bizarre feeling to be swimming along when a one thousand-pound creature comes up and nudges you in the back wanting to play. Often they’ll roll over, hoping to get their belly scratched like a puppy.<br /><br />It was our second trip in 1999 when my 14-year old daughter Tiffany Simms climbed back in the boat and etched a memory that will live a lifetime. "I've been playing with this baby manatee for 15 minutes," she exclaimed. "It put its flippers out and we twirled around in circles like we were dancing!"<br /><br />You will do yourself, and your children, proud to get to know these rare aquatic mammals while you can.<br /><br />ADDENDUM:<br /><br />One author who read this article disputes some of the figures and issues regarding manatees. Tom McGill is the author of a book called, "The Florida Manatee Conspiracy of Ignorance ."
0975294504.01._PIdp-schmooS,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg
[ Link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...103-0114701-4984631?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 <br /><br />McGill writes to Chattanoogan.com:<br /><br />1. In January 2001, 3,276 manatees were counted under very favorable counting conditions (extended cold spell and good visibility). Not all areas were observed so there are more manatees than those actually counted.<br /><br />2. Over the past two decades the average net growth rate of the manatee population has been 5.5% per annum. More manatees are born each year than those that die. This is true even when significant red tide events have taken place. <br /><br />3. Such a growth rate means the population will double in 13 years. Eventually, the manatee species will reach the carrying capacity of its habitat, and that may be sooner than most biologists think. <br /><br />4. Manatees wintering in the Crystal River area constitute less than 8 % of the population. Manatees wintering at one power plant (FPL) on the Indian River in Brevard County usually exceed the manatee population at Crystal River.<br /><br />5. Most manatees do not have propeller scars, although many do and there is a very good reason why. Manatees have a low frequency hearing limitation and cannot hear slow moving boats in turbid warters (most of Florida). Fortunately, in Crystal River the water is not turbid, and the manatees can normally detect and avoid on coming vessels visually.<br /><br />Reporters such as yourself do the public a disservice by repeating unsubstantiated claims and erroneous statements made by those who have a vested interest in characterizing the manatee as endangered. I'm sure you recognize the manatee has become a business base. It isn't endangered now and probably never was. I refer you to my book on this subject entitled, "The Florida Manatee Conspiracy of Ignorance." It is available at amazon.com. This book contains specific references to scientific studies and the extensive mortality data collected by the state. It provides detailed source information unlike most who opine on the subject.<br /><br />
article_61232-2_large.jpg
<br /><br />====================================
 

Joe Merchant

Cadet
Joined
Jan 11, 2005
Messages
20
Re: Southwest Florida Manatee ALERT: URGENT !!

Feeding them is considered a "Take".<br /><br />Unless your talking about the truck loads of lettuce the park brings in to feed them at Blue Springs.<br />The entire Blue Springs Run is void of any vegetation. That's called, in book artificially propping up the population.
 
Top