Smart Tabs vs. Whale Tail- My Experience

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thumpar

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You seem to not understand what they do, how they work, or how it can help, how can you form an opinion from that standpoint.

I keep telling people, I don't think they're a miracle product, they're just a tool that when used correctly may help.
You don't seem to understand. They are not a fix all. Tabs are the solution. Fins can break your drive. If they were that great of a "tool" why don't the manufactures put them on? In mass production it would only cost them a few bucks.
 

ondarvr

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You don't appear to be reading and understanding what I'm writing, go back and read it all without the bias.
 
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JimS123

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You don't seem to understand. They are not a fix all. Tabs are the solution. Fins can break your drive. If they were that great of a "tool" why don't the manufactures put them on? In mass production it would only cost them a few bucks.
Sorry to come in late in the conversation....

Tabs can rot your transom out if the installer doesn't do it correctly. Wouldn't that be worse than a few holes in the motor?

Fins can't break the drive unless you installed them wrong or you hit something. They don't pick up weeds either. Ever see a broken drive that had NO fin?

Not every boat needs them, thus no need to put them on EVERYTHING. The only boat I've owned in the past 32 years that didn't have one is a woody.....and to boot it has the helm, tank, battery, etc all aft. The buoyancy of wood and the better hull designs meant that boats didn't need to be "fixed" back in the day.

Satisfied fin AND tab owner here, and yes I do understand. We have 3 boats in the family right now, and all 3 have fins, for a total of 49 years of usage.

Next time you go to the lake, look at how many boats have them. I bought my first one in 1984. If they were no good they would certainly be out of businees by now.

We should stop promoting them anyway. With the negative comments here, surely nobody would buy one.

To quote a very famous man (CH), you won't get my fin until you pry if from my cold dead hands...
 

roffey

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My 2 cents are ask for the advice and take it into consideration and do what you think is best. To be honest I thought the whale tails were a cheap alternative to tabs and ventilation was the same as cavitation, I learnt something new today. :popcorn:
 
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thumpar

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You don't appear to be reading and understanding what I'm writing, go back and read it all without the bias.
I guess you can't understand facts.

And Jim the fin can break the cav plate, seen the damage.
 

ondarvr

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Please explain your "facts" you have presented none.

As for breaking an anti ventilation plate, yes, I'm sure it could, and has happened. Lots of things can happen to damage many parts of a boat or any other device, but people still do them. It just means there could be a trade off, better performance in exchange for slightly more risk in damage, many people feel the same about aluminum and stainless props.
 

fhhuber

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My result from adding the whale tail was 100% positive...

Gets on plane faster. Stays on plane at 200 rpm lower (lightly loaded boat). No instability added. Looking back at the engine the majority of the added fin area is out of the water when on plane.

Then swapped props and the boat just about jumps on plane.

You'll get different results with different design "whale tails" on the same hull... some of these are just flat plates, some are bent up and some are bent down. The set I bought was inexpensive and has the "wings" bend up, helping get it out of the water at speed.

Talking with my local "boat guy"... he said that placement fore and aft really matters also and I followed his suggestion about how far forward to mount it.
 

NYBo

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The whole idea that a hydrofoil puts undue stress on the drive/outboard (other than maybe the a/v plate) is overblown. Just taking some weight off the stern will cause it to rise, but I doubt that the force exceeds to weight of the outboard or I/O.

Now, let's talk about something less controversial, like ethanol in gasoline.
 

H20Rat

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Most boaters just bolt a fin in place and head to the water, they may be satisfied with one aspect of the change, but having it drag in the water typically results many negatives. The boat owner then reports that they are evil and have no right to exist. Tabs and foils are just tools that are designed to do very different things, some of the possible benefits overlap though, so people try to use them in the same way. The marketing people are just interested in selling them, so will claim all sorts of things, but never tell you how to achieve them.


Not that I doubt you, I entirely agree, but even the manufacturer of the 'whale tail' makes absolutely no mention of having to do any tweaking or tuning. They simply claim slap it on in 15 minutes and go run! Hard to blame the owners when they followed every single step that the manufacturer provided for them. Smart tabs on the other hand have the best customer support bar none, have multiple models/sizes, and very detailed tuning instructions.

Whale Tail XL instructions - http://www.davisnet.com/product_docu...8WhlTlENGL.pdf

The other problem is that not all boats have a tunable lower unit. Take pretty much any I/O for example. Lots of I/O's can benefit greatly by smart tabs, due to either underpowered 3.0's, or having a large engine in a relatively short boat. (lots of stern weight)

Personally, I've run both. I also had a old tri-hull that would porpoise no matter what the motor height was, once it hit a certain speed you had to hang on and ride through it. The whale tail fixed that, but also slowed it down and caused some weird bow steer issues. (lived with it 1 summer, moved the motor around 4 different times, no significant change) Smart tabs transformed the boat dramatically. Quicker planing, regained the top speed, and not a hint of porpoising.
 
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fhhuber

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Tuning the whale tail tends to mean drilling more holes in the anti-ventilation plate. Drill enough and its sure to break.

Find someone with more knowledge than you have about where to place it... You really want to get it in the right spot the first try.

Too far aft and its not going to do its main job of helping reduce air being drawn to the prop when you are trying for that hole shot. Too far forward and it can interfere with how far you can turn the engine (steering) when its trimmed all the way in/down.

On plane... it really shouldn't be doing much.

It really shouldn't change how high you want the motor mounted.
 

ondarvr

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What I find odd about these discussions on fins is that no matter what I put in print, people respond to things I didn't say, or list issues I already mentioned as if I didn't know about them. Most of the time I've already mentioned a very likely problem, yet people will respond saying something like "I put one on my 19' I/O and it did stage things, it slowed it down and the handling was scary". Then they go on about how there is no way one could work in any application and that the devil must have designed and marketed them. The person will then try to use this as proof to show me I'm totally wrong and that a fin can "never" work. This will be in a post immediately following one where I said the chances of it working on an I/O are slim, and that there could possibly be negative results.

The shape of most of them are like fishing lures, they are designed to catch boat owners, the performance aspect is secondary, but this doesn't mean that in some situations they work well. There are much smaller metal ones marketed to the high performance market, these are probably designed a little better than some of the huge bulky monsters on the market.

As for adjusting or tuning for best performance, they typically say nothing about it on the package, if they said you needed to start tinkering fewer people would buy them.

I/O,s are the least likely place they will work, and its because you can't do any adjusting, although in this application some people still find them acceptable, on certain hulls the owners feel the benefits outweigh the negatives. That's for them to decide.

Raising and lowering the motor to fine tune it after mounting the fin is very important, it's where you are going to find the improvements, if any are to be had. Not doing this can cheat the owner out of some (probably all) of the possible benefits of using one.

They may or may not help in any given application, there are just too many variables to say it will help before doing all the work. In the end it may be of no value at all, or hinder performance.


I say right up front that for what 99% of boat owners want fixed or improved about how their boat rides or planes can be solved far better with tabs, it's what tabs do, and they do it well. A fin may help to improve some aspects, but the chances of it helping without some negatives results is very likely unless the fine tuning is done, and still it may not help at all.

A foil is sort of a poor mans hydraulic Jack plate, the jack plate works by allowing you to have the prop deeper in the water at low speed so that it can get a good bite with no ventilation. When running at high speed the motor can be raised so there is less drag from the gearcase, resulting in a higher top speed and possibly other handling benefits. A fin "may" allow you to mount the motor higher to gain some speed and possible handling improvements and still let you accelerate hard without the prop ventilating. Or, it may not help at all, but you don't know without doing the work.

I have 8 or 9 boats, only one has a foil, and only because after a great deal of testing it was the only way to get it dialed in without a hydraulic Jack plate, and I wasn't going to spend that much on a boat I rarely use. I have tabs on another boat because that's the tool it needs for best performance, it's the boat I use the most.
 
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alldodge

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I agree w/ ondarvr except one type item
Have a foil (Stingray) on my Rinker (I/O) and installed it just after the warranty was out. lost a few mph WOT but has done great for all these years. The Stingray type and hard a stiff and curve down on the back edge, this pics the stern up. The dole-fin and other types that I've seen are soft and don't see how they could help much. IMO hydraulic tabs are the best and feel smart tabs are dumb, pun intended. No one would buy something called dumb tabs. They are set and forget, non adjustable while running, at least the foil can be adjusted with trim.
 

ondarvr

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Actually we do agree, you put one on your I/O and found it helped in a few ways, but it also had a downside of being a little slower, which you felt was a good trade off, nothing wrong with that, every boat design is a trade off, you get a little more here, but you give up a little there, that's how it works.

As for the shape, on an I/O the shape would be more important, I have no comment on what may work better because again, every application will be different.
 
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alldodge

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Actually we do agree, you put one on your I/O and found it helped in a few ways, but it also had a downside of being a little slower, which you felt was a good trade off, nothing wrong with that, every boat design is a trade off, you get a little more here, but you give up a little there, that's how it works.

As for the shape, on an I/O the shape would be more important, I have no comment on what may work better because again, every application will be different.

OK cool, I got it now thanks
 

burtonrider11

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Wow, this sparked quite a conversation. I just got done installing the Smart Tabs on our boat yesterday. Unfortunately, we are still a couple months away from the weather being nice enough to go out. I am not anti foil, we had one on our last boat and the boat planed quickly and easily, however it was on it when we bought the boat, so I can't compare.

My main reason for buying the tabs was two fold, one they were $99 right here on iBoats and I could install myself. Our boat is a 20 footer, so I think true hydraulic tabs would have been overkill.

The one ancillary feature that I wanted is the elimination of bow wander at no wake speeds (we cruise in areas with long no wake zones), this is something that a foil can't fix. All the test reports and reviews I read is that these tabs do that. Better planing will be a bonus.....

I'll post my results when I can get her on the water this spring, I need to dial them in and I also have another prop I want to run along with them.
 

alldodge

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The one ancillary feature that I wanted is the elimination of bow wander at no wake speeds (we cruise in areas with long no wake zones), this is something that a foil can't fix. All the test reports and reviews I read is that these tabs do that.
.

Let us know if they actually stop that. Have hydraulic tabs on the Formula and foil on the Rinker and have found nothing which will stop the wander.
 

JASinIL2006

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Smart Tabs on my boat helped a lot with bow wander, but they did not eliminate it.
 

burtonrider11

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Let us know if they actually stop that. Have hydraulic tabs on the Formula and foil on the Rinker and have found nothing which will stop the wander.
I'll give a full report :) I probably should re-phrase that, I am hoping the tabs will lessen the bow wander.....complete elimination is probably being a bit optimistic...
 
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