Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

[Ariesgod53]

Hello again,

My 74 Johnson wasn't cutting it and so we purchased a slightly newer 1980 70 Hp Evinrude. The dealer I bought this from assured me there were no probolems to speak of and when I finally was able to get it on the water I found out I had some problems.

The motor seems to idle fine and run great, but once and a while like when we are trying to pull up a skier the motor bogs down at 3/4 throttle and will die if I don't play with it. One marina had looked at the carbs and they said that they were real clean so their solution was to replace the jets with larger ones as Johnson/Evinrude suggested. After that I hit the water again and the problem still persisted. I then took the motor to a different marina and 15 days in the shop and my warranty period running out I find that 2 of the 3 cylinders are scored and should be rebuilt. I immediately called the place I purchased it and brought this up to them and they now are saying that the motor was perfect when it left and they may or may not agree to pay 50% of the costs to have it rebuilt, but their shop has to do the work.

Now the question is do I run it until it actually dies and then rebuild it? Or, do I go and purchase a newer motor? I was leaning towards brand new, but I have no idea what to look at as boating is very new to me and prices seem to be pretty crazy!

Thanks for your help.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

well your existing motor in that condition, may be worth $100. figure the cost of rebuild on top of purchase price, and consider the cost of a new one, with warranty. this is your decision, and the monthly payments on top of boat maintenance, cost of operation.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

You made several mistakes, buying an engine with a warrantee should have included a test ride, that would have shown the problem immediately.

You took it to other shops instead of returning it where you bought it.

I'm not sure a new engine will do you any good if you continue dealing with issues the same way.

If the warrantee is any good then the engine should be fixed, does it say 50% or is that something they invented.?
I think you're going to have to rely on what the paperwork states and push it, get something from them on paper with todays date so they can't deny you brought it in before the warrentee expired.

 

[mikesea]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

alot to consider,first,you bought an eng.from someone that claimed it was perfect,did you have compression readings at time of sale,that is number 1 when buying a used eng.unfortunatly there are some bad apple dealers out there,next,they may or may not pay the 50 percent.that is a very vague situation,heres why,lets assume they do it right,bore each cylinder and put new pistin kits,berings,gaskets ,and,they do the labor,the labor for them will be cheap,they may pay the actual rebuilder 20 an hr but bill at 75,then there are the parts,marine parts have a huge mark up,so ,what im saying is,they can actually make money doing the rebuld,rather than take a loss,or pay 50 percent,your title says its an 89,but u mention 1980,what is it,if i recall,the 89 is a newer style with more cc's than the older,i would guess that a good rebuild would cost around 2000 dollars,if you rebuild the eng.you still have a 1980,89 motor with little value on a resale,but,if you are looking to keep the eng for many yrs ,and the rest of the engine is clean,no corrosion,no leaks,a good lowerunit and trim unit,then it may be worth it.i mention 2000 as a guess with 600 per cylinder as my base price,it could be more ,or less.get the estimate from the guy and find out what your actual cost will be ,then let us know,I would be apprehensive from a guy that sold you the eng.in perfect cond and know wants to reneg on your warranty,he will likely tell you you voided by bringing to another marina,if he was honest,he would determine why the eng.is bad,then tell ou the honest diognosis,he shoud be able to tell if YOU overheated it,or forgot to out oil in ,etc.But perhaps he grabbed an old eng off his shelf,had an employee fire it up and sent you down the road with it.We always did a spark ,compression test ,changed impeller and gear oil and wrote these findings on the bill of sale at time of sale.Then if the motor came back with a blown cyl.we would check gas for water/oil,overheating etc.we even installed heat dots on the block,its a piece of metal that melts if you overheat,if the piece was missing or melted,you had a problem.come back with the guys offers.you dont want to throw good money at bad.Sorry you had the experience.In the future ,be sure to ask here what you should look for and explain the deal your looking at.

 

[Boblester40]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

If you do rebuild remeber to change the jets back to how they should be !

 

[bktheking]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

That all depends on how mechanically inclined you are and if you are poor like me. If it were my motor I'd keep an eye out for a good used powerhead and swap it out. New 70 hp motors are like $8000 +tax plus controls plus plus plus, a good used powerhead can be had for $400. I've also seen that vintage motor selling for $1200-$1500 bucks. It all depends on what you want to spent and the chances you are willing to take.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Re: Should I rebuild my '89 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

There is a 79 on ebay right now, you'd have to check out the interchange , compression looks awesome.

They are the same identical powerhead, 79 and 80.

Buy it, get a buddy over with a manual and a wrench set, a base gasket and some pints. Back on the water in no time.

 

[Ariesgod53]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Oh, I know I've screwed up. The first place I took it to did a compresion test right away and it checked out, they were the ones that replaced the jets because at some point (I was told) there was a manufactureres recall on those to be replaced with larger ones. The second shop I took it too also did a compression test and it passed as well, they said within 10#'s per cylinder. Yet, they also looked inside and saw the scoring and that's what they told me the problem was. When I first called the original place I purchased they told me to take it to one of my local shops becuase they were 4 1/2 hrs away and it wouldn't pay for me to drive all that way if it was'nt a big problem. That should have been my first clue, I should have just taken it back up to them to begin with you're right. Then once the problem was found and I called I found that there were multpile owners and they both were telling me different things. That should have been my second clue. I paid $1000 for this motor and it has gotten my family out on the water all year, but I have to be the first to admit I did not do my research before I went looking for a motor. My fear is a new motor is going to cost me, but being the only owner and having a warranty that's worth something is a definate plus. Then again rebuilding this motor will save me a lot of money, but may create other problems somewhere else in the motor.

I am pretty good about taking care of my equipment, but not so schooled in how to protect myself when purchasing boat motors. Expensive lesson to learn.

Thanks again.

 

[bktheking]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Warranties aren't all they are cracked up to be, dealers have ways of getting out of coverage, the only plus is that the motor is new. I'm cheap though, I paid $2500 for my whole boat only to find out a year later it is rotten from stringer to stringer, I'd rather blow 3 motors up over replacing the entire deck on the boat. I've never done one before and never will again but I don't have 10K in my back pocket for something that is entirely pleasure related, it doesn't make me money, just seems to be a money pit. I was quoted $3000+ to replace the deck, so far i've got 40+ hours into it and around $400 in material, not bad vs $3000. If you have the time and tools and are relatively mechanical take a stab at it, it's just a powerhead, pull the old one off and put the new one on.

 

[Boblester40]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

If your compression is ok on all there the scroing can not be that bad and it would not cause an intermitant problem, sounds more like a carb issue than a worn out engine maybe as allready mentioned the fuel pump or even ignition weak spark etc.

rgds
bob

 

[Ariesgod53]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

See thats what confused me, the mechanic tore apart the bottome carb and said everything was looking good and didn't need to be rebuilt yet. I would assume compression tests on a cold motor would be different than a motor that is up to temp? The one mechanic said that when the motor heats up the block is swelling just enough for the problem to be evident. Yet now when we talk about it the carb issue would make sense as to why it happens sometimes and not all the time, as you said.

 

[jonesg]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

I have trouble with your accounting of events.
You started out implying the problem was evident right off the bat.
Later you recount the engine got you "out on the water all yr."


Also, your desription of the problem, sometimes bogging down under load , I don't know that describes scored cylinders causing the problem.
Especially as compression is still good ( although you posted no numbers)
I would be looking at ignition and fuel delivery.

More to the point, if the compression is good I would have no reason to peek at the cylinder walls.

 

[James R]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

I completely agree with the gentlemen referring to your good compression.
I have never been able to equate the visual peek into the cylinders with the real scoring.Marks on a polished surface always look like a mountain range. I speak from many years in Superfishing.
Your motor is probably good but may have an ignition problem.
A compression tester costs very little on Ebay.
The motor must go through a link and sync set up before you can do anything else.
Buy a manual and study that first.

 

[Ariesgod53]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

When I said that the boat got us on the water, I meant we were able to go but intermittently the motor would act up and we'd have to play with the throttle to get it to go. The problem was happening from the first time we took the motor out, yet it got us out and fishing.

Now I got the compression numbers from the shop as I had them check it again. I don't know which order they went in but the numbers they gave me were:
140, 145, 148.

They did take the head off to look directly at the cylinders and pistons just to double check, and as many of you suspected there was absolutely nothing scored. So from the advice of several of you, I ordered the carb kits and we are going to take care of that completely. Then see how things behave after that.

About that manual I am having touble finding the manul for this motor, and I can't tell you the model number until I get it home and look at the motor itself.

 

[kencat]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

About that manual I am having touble finding the manul for this motor, and I can't tell you the model number until I get it home and look at the motor itself.

Factory OMC service manuals from http://www.marineengine.com/ or http://www.outboardbooks.com/

They all come from the last company as they have the rights for 1996 and under omc manuals.

 

[James R]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Those compressions are exceptionally good. You have a good motor.
Carburetors must be cleaned to be sure that they don't starve a cylinder of fuel and lubrication. You don't know what has been done or not done. Don't use spray cleaners. They wont do the job and you run the risk of damaging parts.
I recommend using Gunk products carb and parts cleaning kit and soak the carbs. Wash all parts with water to remove the cleaning solution and carefully blow dry with compressed air. Any hardened muck should be carefully loosened by scraping. If the carbs look very dirty you may want to repeat the soaking again to be sure. The kit is available from many stores. I get mine from Advance Auto.
Next look to the lower unit and replace the impeller and the oil. You will most likely need to do a link and sync. The manual will explain all.
If you have a problem come back to the Forum.
Bless our friends at iboats for supporting this.

 

[Boblester40]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

First thing i would do is change you mechanic as he sounds completely incompetent ! you cant just check one carb and say its OK and the compression test is a no brainer , DIY is the only way i have found.


rgds
bob

 

[jonesg]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

First thing i would do is change you mechanic as he sounds completely incompetent ! you cant just check one carb and say its OK and the compression test is a no brainer , DIY is the only way i have found.
rgds
bob

I think there must be a few guys out there passing themselves off as outboard techs without much real training .

On the carbs, its good practice to run a single strand of wire thru the jets or blast with shop air if you have it.
Get the shop manual and save a ton of fazoo.

 

[Ariesgod53]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Thanks everyone I am waiting for the carb kits and when I get a chance to look at the specific model of my outboard I will get the manual. While I am waiting for that I have been working on a mold for a windshield. I've been playing with 1/4" plexiglass and I think I can do it. We'll see and I fill everyone in when I get those carbs rebuilt.

Thanks again

 

[Ariesgod53]

Re: Should I rebuild my '80 Evinrude 70hp or buy newer?

Well the good news is that the carb rebuild is done and everything is working great. The one problem I have is the plunger for the electric choke fell out I think that the choke itself will have to be replaced as it is a little weak. 20 years old may'be that's expected, shouldn't cost too much.

Now for the question. Even before the carb rebuild when we run the boat and then slow down, stop and shut the motor off and just float we noticed that there is a lot of irradescent liquid floating around the motor. By alot I mean a good 2 ft diameter and then it seems to spread into a cloudy, mirkyness outward. I can't for the life of me see where it's coming from. I took the cover off and didn't see anything leaking while it was running or when it was shut off. I checked the fuel line from the tank and the connections and there is nothing leaking there. I can't really see anywhere where it may be coming from, but look in the water and there it is. Is it extra fuel that isn't getting burned and escaping through the exhaust? OR is it possible that the fuel pump or diaphram is going? If that is the case where could I buy that part? Any ideas guys/gals?

Thanks.