Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

[frustratedboater]

Wonder if anyone can help me with some technical questions. I generally repair outboard motors, but was given a problem Seadoo Bombarder jet ski that won't start. Said it sputtered a bit...then felt a backfire like pop and that's it! Everything went dead.

He had put in a few 5amp fuses that popped, and fouled a few plugs trying to get it working. I serviced the carb (very little grit and grime, but cleaned up a nice). Also noticed that the idle screw (I think) was turned in all the way, and I gave it a 1 1/2 turn out (probably a universal setting)...?

The real problem:
With the key plugged in, I get nothing (fuses all good). With the battery being new, I jumped the two solenoid terminals and it cranks over nice. Am I looking at the relay or something as the problem?? How do a run a test on it? What does it look like in the box????

I would appreciate any advice on this or a picture showing the issue. Thanks so much,

~FB~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

first we need to know what engine,, second the high speed jet is supposed to be all the way in. check the ground wire to the engine by the starter those get corroded where they attach to the block,,

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Thanks for taking a swing at this,

I will turn the adjustment all the way in. Wasn't sure.. It is a 1997 720cc. I will check the grounding wire, I guess looks can be deceiving. Will let you know!
~FB~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

97 has a dess system,, if the key goes bad it won't work and if the key reader goes bad it won't work,, usually with a bad key it will give one long beep instead of 2 short ones,, I have found the wires going in to the back of the key reader corrode ,, there is a test you can do with a volt meter but I have had them read ok on the meter and still be bad,, I usually use reader that is known to be good to be sure the reader is the issue..// usually without the key if you press the start button the gages will come on for a few seconds,, other problems could be a bad start stop switch, but the computer must read the key and give 2 beeps,, I have also run it to a bad beeper that never worked but the ski started .

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

hit enter twice by accident! see below....

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Hey, I really appreciate the diagonisis help with this. It is a customers ski and I'd like to fix it, but not by throwing parts at a 'problem'.

Well, I've tried cleaning the engine ground and it definatly has more than required ground and it is still as dead as a nail. I ran a continuity test on the start/stop switch and the needle rose and fell on each 'click'. The meter I'm using is your basic Radio Shack Micronta Ohms/DCa/DCb/AC meter. If I knew the setting for the key switch, I could run a test on that, and I guess there is no way to test the key? One strange thing about the whole thing, which leads me to the start/stop, or key switch, is that it cranks normally when I bridge the two solenoid terminals together, with a great battery ground even! It has to be either the switch, key, or electrical pack of some sort under the back seat.

If you could think up some magic on this to get it going, I'll send you the commission on the deal. Appreciate it always,
~FB~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

check the solenoid ground and check to see voltage is being sent to the solenoid when you hit the start button, with the dess key in place, perhaps you have a bad wire or pin conector going to the solenoid,, you may also make a dedicated ground for the solenoid and use a start switch from the battery plus to the solenoid bypassing the regular circuts to see if it cranks,, if not then it needs a new solenoid

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

"check to see voltage is being sent to the solenoid"

Not exactly sure on how to do this with my meter... Would I put one lead on the power side of the switch and the other on the red lead of the solenoid?

The key switch has three wires coming from it...is there a certain reading I should get when checking it? Also, your last test, of omitting the circuits by bridging the ground and the positive, would this basically be the same as putting a screw driver between the poles and cranking it over?

I will do the check on the solenoid this afternoon. Customer stated that it had quit, then he shook it around back and forth, then fired up again. Shortly after he had a back fire type symptom and all went dead. Definitely sounds electrical!

 

[Dryon]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Take a look at this diagram. It should help you. You can use a multimeter in place of the test light to check for voltage. I would first verify the 5 amp fuse is still good. If it keeps blowing the fuse then I would suspect the MPEM has shorted out. Very costly to replace.

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Dryon,
He did state that the plugs kept fouling and the fuses were blowing. I guess that is not a good sign from your sugestions... I'm dead in the switch, key, instruments, but everything else seems to have ample 12-13 volts. I don't have the equipment to check the MPEM (which I'm assuming is the large black brain of the boat?). If that's the case I'll return it with a smile and say "sorry".

Coming from one who takes pride in my repairs, returning it better than I received it, it hurts to let it out of the driveway not repaired!!!

Dryon, Jeff, I can't thank you enough for your experience and help. It's this kind of professionalism and genuine mechanics good will, is why I love these forums. Thanks again...

Ralph

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

activating the solenoid separately with jumper wires is not the same as jumping the main terminals,, reason for that is the contacts inside the solenoid get corroded and may not be making a good connection,, also ground wires going to the mepm could be bad if the ski has a trim motor it may have water inside from a leak in the rubber boot and that will blow a fuse every time.. especially the 5 amp one

 

[Dryon]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Depending on which '97 ski model you're working on, some MPEM's can be checked with an ohmmeter. Models "SP, GTS, & HX" are the cheaper MPEM and can be checked. The service manual has a chart for checking the MPEM resistance values of each circuit. It also states that if it tests 100% within the ranges given it doesn't mean the MPEM is in perfect condition.

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Well, I'll give that check one last attempt. I'm not an expert on where to look for the possible errors, but every bit helps! Outboards..., that's a different story. I'll be out of town tonight, but will try those areas you have suggested on Friday afternoon. If you have any diagrams or instructions on testing the MP.. with the ohms meter, that would be of much help.

Thank you, Thank you!!

~R~

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

While checking out the solenoid in the solenoid/coil box near the battery, I starting unpluging connections, and noticed a hidden 15 fuse that had poped. I plugged in a new one and heard a snap in the front fuse box by the MPEN. Does that narrow down the possibilites to where I should be checking??
~R~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

unplug the 3 yellow wires in the front box,, they go to the rectifier,, then see if a fuse blows with those unplugged,, if not start plugging them back in one at a time, one will blow the fuse,, if so your stator has a short,, you can replace the stator windings or just run with the offending field unplugged,, the charging system will work but only put out 4 amps rather than 6 amps.

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

Are you refering to the MPEM box 'up front'? There is a large plug/harness and a smaller square/clear epoxy box screwed to the MPEM. It has 2 yellow, one red, and a black--is this the area you are talking about? Let me know...

~R~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

it is a small epoxy filled square box and usually has 3 yellow and one red wire don't remember the black but if it does have a black wire it would just be a ground wire,

 

[frustratedboater]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

I will conduct that test mid day today. When you say 'stator' is this like the stator on an outboard, behind the flywheel? Is it possible to replace only one part of the windings, rather than the whole 'ring'?

I worked on a few 115hp Merc's, that needed the stator (under the flywheel) replaced and it was the whole deal!

Thanks for putting up with all my questions. This is new territory for me...
~R~

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

if it has a bad field you have to replace the entire thing I may even have one for a 720 engine not sure though would need to look in my parts shed

I just found a rectifier for one of the 720 engines and it has a yellow, a yellow with a black stripe and a red wire and a black wire,, I was thinking of the 787 engine with the 3 yellow wires not sure if the same thing applies for the test on the yellow wires but I know I have a stator or two floating around in there all the mepm's I have are for the non dess ignition systems though.

 

[Jeff Walkowiak]

Re: Seadoo Bombarder-ignition issue help

exactly what model ski is this and what are the last 2 digits of the id number should be 97 if it is a 1997 model .also does it have power trim??