School Violence

[GA_Boater]

No facts to back up anything in this post, just a few observations made while crawling on this Earth for a fair number of years.

In the old days, if two guys and on occasion girls, had a difference to settle, usually they had a set-to in the high school restroom or behind the school and settled things. We passed notes back and forth in the classroom to communicate the latest news.

Today we have Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, texting, cell phones, forums etc., all readily accessible to our kids. Stuff gets written and sent to the world and once you hit send, there is no taking it back. Then you add that parents aren't really watching out for their kids and looking at what is being sent and received on the phones and computers they buy them to "keep up with the Jones". Even friends aren't telling others outside of their peer group about disturbing messages left by troubled kids. How many times after the fact do we hear that "X was posting some strange stuff", by then it's too late. Why they don't just fight in the john or behind the school, tell someone about being bullied, either physically, verbally or electronically - I don't know. But they do take a gun or knife to school to exact revenge, maybe surf the Web for plans to make a bomb. We read about it on the WWW or see it on the news. Sometimes it's about a spoiled plot and sometimes it's far worse.

It's splashed all over the news because it's horrific and the news world still believes in "If it bleeds, it leads". Ratings and ad bucks drive much of the reporting. That's why the NBC says they are the #1 in news or ABC is the most watched evening news.

Again no facts, just some of my thoughts. About to hit post so this is forever.

 

[gm280]

I think it is a multitude of reasons for such issues in the news. Yes the INSTANT coverage does make it seem like more. Days of yesteryear it would have taken weeks or longer or even not even worth a story posting. But today the news crews are there before some of the news is even done. And once the news gets so much coverage, it brings out so many copycat types and wannabes for their face in the news as well. Fame and their 15 minutes of coverage drives a lot of it. It seems the more coverage the more unstable folks decide they want their time in the news as well. So it seems a cyclic issue where the more the coverage the more to cover. Then factor in the proliferation of cell/smart phones with cameras and video everywhere anymore and the recipe is complete...JMHO!

 

[Fun Times]

Just looking at the Wikipedia table, I count the following (out of 91 incidents):

2000 or more recent: 44 school shootings
1990s: 17 incidents
1980s: 8 incidents
1970s: 10 incidents
1960s or before: 12 incidents

I can't vouch for the accuracy of Wikipedia's numbers, but if we assume they are reasonably complete, it looks pretty clearly like the frequency has increased.

I'm not a parent so I don't follow the school schedules of kids being "in" school but haven't the school schedules changed to where the kids are in school longer (less time off) now than say the 90's on down?

Looking at the incident numbers going up recently brings another thought to mind....Maybe the kids are spending more time at school now and in turn letting certain little personal aggravations build up to where some are acting out on their aggressions such as the same that sometimes happens to adults while at work....The term Going Postal comes to mind.:noidea:

 

[LippCJ7]

Statistically the answer is Yes they are increasing, here is a 13 year FBI Study on active shooters, this takes all active shooter incidents since 2000 and breaks them down into environments such as workplace, educational, etc.

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/201...r-incidents-in-the-u.s.-between-2000-and-2013

What exactly is the answer is a much tougher question, while I believe that Parenting is the single biggest issue, I am in Law Enforcement so I see very clearly the horrible effects that our horrible Mental Health system plays on our Justice system, and how it plays out.

Let me make this clearer(Sarcasm), My County has a population of about 300,000, in my Jail we have roughly 300 inmates on average per day, of those 70% suffer from and are medicated for some type of mental Health disorder, be it bipolar, schizophrenia, PTSD what ever, Colorado in 2006 had 14,000 Jail inmates, Colorado increased in population by almost 2 million people between 2006 and 2014. Here in Colorado we have 2 state mental health hospitals with less then 400 beds combined, so just math here we have 210 inmates(in my jail) who need mental healthcare, but the state hospitals only have 400 beds to treat the entire states 5.3 million people, with 64 counties and more then 9000 inmates with Mental Disorders. Meanwhile between 2006 and 2014 mental health beds have not increased at all.

So what we do is we hold the inmates by court order, until they can go to the State Mental Hospital for treatment/evaluation or whatever the court chooses. Well this simply doesn't work very well so now the County contracts with a couple Mental Health Professionals to help treat these individuals in order to help speed the process up and clear Jail bed space, with this system we have about 10 inmates who are in real bad shape and for lack of a better term above our skills and need to go to the State Hospital, so we treat them as best we can until a bed opens for them. This is the way we do it in Colorado, this is not isolated to just my County, it is how we do it state wide. I don't know how it is done in other States.

I think my point is that whatever the cause is, how we are treating it isn't working.

On another note I think it is important to note that its not just you guys or us in Law Enforcement who have noticed how easy it is to shoot up a school, at some point it is very likely our schools will be the target of a foreign terrorist plot, every level of Law Enforcement knows this from the top down, our Military knows too. The problem is that how long does it take before someone starts taking the time and initiative to protect our children properly, how many times does it take a single shooter to go into a school and kill multiple kids before people start to open their minds to real protection? Why is it that we protect inmates in my jail more then I am allowed to protect my children and yours in the schools they attend? Do people really believe that terrorists are not doing the same investigations into school shootings the FBI is?


I sure hope I didn't violate any rules with this post guys....

 

[achris]

...On another note I think it is important to note that its not just you guys or us in Law Enforcement who have noticed how easy it is to shoot up a school, at some point it is very likely our schools will be the target of a foreign terrorist plot, every level of Law Enforcement knows this from the top down, our Military knows too. The problem is that how long does it take before someone starts taking the time and initiative to protect our children properly, how many times does it take a single shooter to go into a school and kill multiple kids before people start to open their minds to real protection? Why is it that we protect inmates in my jail more then I am allowed to protect my children and yours in the schools they attend? Do people really believe that terrorists are not doing the same investigations into school shootings the FBI is?


I sure hope I didn't violate any rules with this post guys....

That's because that thought (shooting up a bunch of children) wouldn't even enter the heads of decent people.....

 

[MH Hawker]

Gun free zone is a perfect place to hunt the defenseless

 

[whistler66]

Just thinking out loud in some jurisdictions teachers are not allowed to mark on a paper of a student who has done poorly with a red ink as to make a point to them. My kids played sports in school and the awards banquet at the end of the year was the most drawn out thing I've ever seen. Every kid had to get a trophy. Categories were made up so a kid would get something. When I was in sports there was probably one trophy and that to the MVP of the team. Now society doesn't understand how to fail or how to get up after you fail.

 

[metriccrescentwrench]

Just looking at the Wikipedia table, I count the following (out of 91 incidents):

2000 or more recent: 44 school shootings
1990s: 17 incidents
1980s: 8 incidents
1970s: 10 incidents
1960s or before: 12 incidents

I can't vouch for the accuracy of Wikipedia's numbers, but if we assume they are reasonably complete, it looks pretty clearly like the frequency has increased. Hard to say if to say if the constant news coverage has caused the increase, but the 365/24/7 coverage certainly amplifies the effect of these sorts of events.

I agree that the incidence of violence has been increasing. Also, the US has more gun related deaths per capita than any other modern country in the world, and likewise we have far more guns per capita than any other modern country, so it's pretty obvious that arming everybody isn't the answer. Here are the numbers: ( http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2...y-study-finds/ )



Country..........Gun's / 100.....Gun Deaths / 100,000

United States	88.8	10.2
Switzerland	45.7	3.84
Finland	45.3	3.64
Sweden	31.6	1.47
Norway	31.3	1.78
France	31.2	3
Canada	30.8	2.44
Austria	30.4	2.94
Iceland	30.3	1.25
Germany	30.3	1.1
New Zealand	22.6	2.66
Greece	22.5	1.5
Belgium	17.2	2.43
Luxembourg	15.3	1.81
Australia	15	1.04
South Africa	12.7	9.41
Turkey	12.5	0.72
Denmark	12	1.45
Malta	11.9	2.16
Italy	11.9	1.28
Spain	10.4	0.63
Ireland	8.6	1.03
Portugal	8.5	1.77
Israel	7.3	1.86
United Kingdom	6.2	0.25
Netherlands	3.9	0.46
Japan	0.6	0.06

 

[MTboatguy]

Based on populations and those owning guns, our rate of firearm death is actually lower than it was in the last part of the 60's so increasing population as well as gun ownership has really not resulted in an increase of gun violence. There are a lot of things that come into firearms deaths. Of course now we can look at other causes of violent death, like cars, knives, etc If we look at countries that have banned gun ownership, there are actually quite a few that have seen an increase of violent deaths. So gun ownership is not the only factor that needs to be taken into account.

 

[southkogs]

And again, I kinda go back to the topic - school violence. Violence is not the same as school shootings, though shootings may be included in "violence."

And I think based on some data, and certainly perception, school violence is on the rise. But because violence may or may not involve weapons, it's foolish (IMHO) to even consider that the control or elimination of weapons would curb violence. If I'm committed to violence, I'll find a weapon even if it's merely the one attached to my wrist.

I go back to an issue of the home. I don't think there's any way around it: if the basic form of societal governance is not functioning at least marginally well - it's going to generate problems.

 

[Tnstratofam]

^^^^ Again I agree. People today are not taught respect of person or property. There are no consequences for bad behavior. Children are undisciplined, and parents want to be friends with their kids instead of parents. We've tied our teachers hands when it comes to dealing with bad behavior, yet we send our children off to schools to be raised by them. There seems to be a anytging goes mentality with society today. Well now you have it, and instead of dealing with the true causes of these problems we stick SROs "police oficers" in our schools in case there's trouble. When a child is agressive or is withdrawn Stand Up and Be A Parent! Ask them what is wrong, and deal with it. My kids know when I say no that's exactly what it means. They may not always follow my rules, but they are very aware of the cosequences of not following them.


I have told all of my children it's not my job to be your friend if I'm not your dad first and foremost!

 

[Harritwo]

While I know first hand that kids do things their parents dont know about, Violence includes a lot of issues for me. It isnt simply shootings, it is shootings, bullying, teasing, tormenting, disrespect and other issues related to respect or lack of respect. I do believe that the parents should notice a change in their kid, a lack of respect, or the way they interact with others. The teachers should also notice and it does take a village to raise a child.

When i was growing up, it was a small town in West Texas (Pop 2700), if i got in trouble in school, i was in trouble at home. If i did something I wasnt supposed to in town, I was chastised by whoever caught me and would almost guarantee that my Dad would know before I got home.

When I got my drivers license, if i did something stupid, and we all did at one time, Daddy knew before i got home. If it wasnt someone in town telling him, it was the sheriffs deputies.

Regardless, I paid the price for whatever i did. I was held responsible for my actions.

I believe that in today's world, it doesnt happen. Either parents are afraid or clueless or neighbors dont want to get involved. I am not sure, but things are not the way they were in my childhood.