running a little off timing

[seanrh1]

Re: running a little off timing

Having a manual for your specific engine is great but it sounds like you may be new to this type of wrencing. I suggest going to your local library and getting a basic gas engine mechanics book, for some general know-how. The manuals assume you know certain basic princaples.

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

"it guides you whehter to make the adjust/rotate the distributor. I hope I got it right."<br /><br />i have read about the marks on the crankshaft pully, but when u say adjust rotate the distrbutor are you saying, (meaning) rotate by loosening the bolt a little, that holds it in place and merely turning the distributor housing (with the wires still attached), forward clockwise or backward counterclockwise? to adjust the timing?<br /><br />thnaks <br /><br />86bayliner

 

[bomar76]

Re: running a little off timing

You need to spin it towards the knudsen valve.<br />The direction (Clockwise or Counter Clockwise) doesn't matter as the helix coil takes care of that.

 

[jamesr1]

Re: running a little off timing

Clear as mud, lol <br /> Bomar76, what the heck is the knudsen valve? <br /><br /> I am new to boating as well, but I have never needed a light to time an old 350 chevy small block. My uncle raced cudas in his earlier years and is one of the best mech's I know prior to computerized motors. He taught me that the smoothe idle is important, but you really wanted to listen to the motor as it started. Bump the key and it should fire up just right. If it sounds as though the starter is still spinning or if it stumbles then its off, regardless of how it runs. <br /> That being said, from reading post on this site, I have come to the understanding that marine motors are different, a little more tempermental so to speak. <br /><br /><br /> Over all, this is the best site I have ever been to. Heck its my home page, lol

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

what the h... is a helix coil ?<br />and knudsen valve? are you being serious? i have googled both terms and "NADDA"<br /><br />thanks <br /><br />86bayliner

 

[magster65]

Re: running a little off timing

Bomar's just havin' some fun with ya'.<br />Being as an engine can be right or left rotation (we're not going to talk about that right now)... I suggest taking your distributor cap off and just click the starter a couple times to see what way the rotor turns. When your distributor is moved the same direction as your rotor turns you will be retarding the timing and the opposite way will be advancing it. If you have any doubts about the task, have someone who knows what's going on do it and watch and learn. Things always seem easier once you've seen it done. <br />Happy Yachting.

 

[magster65]

Re: running a little off timing

jamesr1<br />A boat engine will only achieve approximately 4300 rpm at full throttle (give or take). Start your car rolling and give it gas, it'll easily pass that rpm and so you have another gear to go to. Keep upshifting all the way to top gear and then floor it... that's how hard your boat's motor works. There is not as much room for error because marine engines work at, or near full potential.

 

[jamesr1]

Re: running a little off timing

magster65,<br /> As I stated in the earlier post, this site has enlightened me to the fact that my little 4 banger is a HP engine. When I purchased my rig, I selected an inboard because I have worked on trucks since high school. I grew up in a town that trucks and tailgate parties were IT. Since a friend recomended I check out this site, I have realized that theres alot of difference between how hard a marine motor works. I was attempting to point that out to the topic starter. I am still learning from reading the posts on this site. Many thanks to all that participate! Sometimes us newbys can really be confused by the funny's posted on these topics and although the pro's get a good laugh, it certainly dosnt help us understand our situation. My advise to anyone here is to be patient and read all the post that you can. These marine mech's are a rare breed and it may take a bit to get used to them. No offense to the mechanics, without there expeirence where would most of us be. <br /><br /><br />p.s I will be purchasing a timing light next trip to walmart.

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

anyone know a good free demonstrational video online of the procedure?<br /><br /><br />thanks,<br /><br />86bayliner

 

[bomar76]

Re: running a little off timing

Originally posted by 86bayliner:<br /> anyone know a good free demonstrational video online of the procedure?<br />thanks,<br />86bayliner

Timing instructions

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

nice, how lame, dont you have a boat you should be in bomar, instead of wasting peoples time with an answer like the above, a$$<br /><br />thanks

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

you either A.) dont know anything about timing or, B. you take your knowledge for granted and your a greedy person too. I wish people like you had to pay for their membership.<br /> Were you not taught, if you cant say anything nice, dont say it at all? If you cant be helpful , Beat it!<br /><br /><br />thanks

 

[muc]

Re: running a little off timing

Here is how engines were timed before timing lights were invented but remember they didn’t have centrifugal advance back than. <br />To time an engine without a timing light --- remove the distributor cap, rotate crankshaft in its normal direction until #1 piston starts up on its compression stroke (remove that plug and put your finger in the hole), stop when timing marks line up,(while you are doing this pay attention to which way the rotor is turning and which high spot on the cam is going to open the points when the rotor is pointing to the #1 sparkplug wire), find the one wire that goes from the distributor to the negitive side of the coil and remove it from the coil, connect one end of a test light to this wire, connect the other end of the test light to the positive post of the battery, , loosen the distributor hold-down bolt, turn the distributor housing in the direction that the rotor spins until the points are closed (the test light should be on, if its not you have bad points), now turn the distributor housing in the opposite direction that the rotor spins until the high spot on the cam makes the light go out, tighten the distributor hold-down bolt and check your work by rotating crankshaft in its normal direction until the timing mark comes up again, the light should go out just as the mark lines up. This method will get will get you within a few degrees of where you should be. I would still use a timing light before running the engine under a load because that is the only way to see if the centrifugal advance is working right.<br />Next time you remove a distributor you might want to scribe a line on the distributor base and the intake manifold before you remove it so you can put it right back where it came from. Good luck, Muc

 

[Dunaruna]

Re: running a little off timing

First, using the slot in the oil pump to line up the dissy is not accurate - the oil pump turns as you remove the distributor. <br /><br />Setting the INITIAL timing by ear is acceptable but follow that up with a timing light after the motor has warmed up. I would challenge a mechanic who doesn't do it that way.<br /><br />Pre-detonation will destroy a motor, it can be akin to a full force sledge hammer coming down ontop of the pistons.<br /><br />Set the motor up on TDC, remove distributor, do whatever need to be done, refit dissy at TDC (turn the oil pump with a scewdriver if required), turn distributor to roughly the same position as before (I use tippex to mark the exact spot), start motor, slight adjustment by hand to level out idling, wait for motor to warm up, use timing light to finalise timing. DONE.<br /><br />Edit: If your front pulley is rubber mounted (harmonic balancer) inspect the rubber for cracks - this can affect the timing marks and therfore the timing.<br /><br />Aldo

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

thank you<br /><br /><br />thanks <br /><br />86bayliner

 

[thunderroad]

Re: running a little off timing

Muc, that was an interesting post. I've fooled with engines of some sort since about 1969 and had never heard of that procedure. I guess I assumed there had always been timing lights to use and never thought about how to time an engine without one.<br />thanks

 

[Don S]

Re: running a little off timing

Originally posted by 86bayliner:<br /> curious to know , will it hurt my engine, if i run it while the timing is a little off, and if its off its not much, the engine sounds really good<br /><br />??<br /><br />thanks <br /><br />86bayliner

Maybe I missed something along the line, but from your previous posts your engine doesn't sound really good unless you don't know what a good running engine sounds like.<br />You have a very long crack in the block patched with epoxy. You took it to a mechanic that found compression problems, but refused to work on it because of the cracked block. You then found a caved in lifter which also includes a wiped lobe on the cam. You don't know the name of engine parts or even the basics of repair. You won't take anyones advise..........<br />Put your prized $5 lifter in the engine on a dead cam, set the timing anywhere that makes you happy and run the friggen boat till it dies. It shouldn't take long, and leave the forum to those that want to repair their boats. You deserve what ever happens, and I for one won't feel sorry for you a bit....... might laugh a little, but Oh Well

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

The mechanic told me it was a sticky or burnt valve. It was not, the valve is fine long enough for me to find a 350 anyway. The "crack is not very long". And I hear people have ran cracked blocks for many years, with no big problems. So I thought I might get to be one of the "lucky ones". <br /> <br /> I learned a great deal from alot of you, much well thought out advise was given me and I will take that knowledge with me and perhaps pass it on. Several have been really good with tolerating my stupid questions, and I really appreciate it.<br /><br /> Because of the good advise i received from many of you, : Bondo, WotKnot, Tommays, Vatter41, f_inscreename, RodBolt, and even you DON, not to leave out many others. <br /> <br /> It was alot of Don's perfect little helpful answers and diagram links to many threads that i read that sucked me in in the first place, and i even have a friend that told me that this guy Don S has been on a long time helping folks out. Hope-ing Don S would be the guy to tell me how to fix my engine the first time.<br /> <br /> I broke it down to find what it was myself, win or lose. I found this caved lifter, i did some research asked some questions, understood all advise that was given. This site helped me through all of that. Couldnt have done it otherwise. <br /><br /> I also understand that, I do have "bump" on the cam, it is opening and closing the exhaust valve, on time or not. Cylinder does have compression, DOES! It is not a dead cylinder. I might not be an expert mechanic like some of you, but I have been around and understand the basic functions of a 4 stroke gas engine. It sounds good! needs tweaking? YES. Do i know everything? NO? Do I ask Stupid questions? YES. Why? I learn more, i understand it better. I wouldnt be here if I knew all the names of the parts and tools and how to use them. Just learned about forums in general. Sorry, I didnt come here already knowing everything. Get over it. Gosh<br /> <br /> Furthermore, I am aware my cam is on the way, my motor's a pc of sheet, and has to be replaced anyway. I already have my $5.00 "prized" lifter installed, now I will experiment and see how much time i get on a slightly worn lobe, while i look for a 350 to drop in. I'll be sure and report back when my time bomb gos off.<br /> <br /> Cant say it enough, Thank you, thank you, and more thank you!<br /><br /><br />--------------------------------------------<br />86bayliner<br /><br />p.s- and Don S, I think you have missed alot of something somewhere, because I have truely valued all of your advise and thoughts, every word. Don't be an a$$.

 

[86bayliner]

Re: running a little off timing

oh and btw Don S, if you remember, my original problem was a popping sound, from that #7 cylinder,later found to be exhaust valve wasnt being opened because of the caved lifter. The popping sound came about because the valve woulnt open to let the exhaust of the detonation out. If I had a dead cylinder would it be popping like that?. Doesnt dead also mean no detonation. If so, then a dead cylinder is out of the question.<br /><br />thanks and good night<br /><br />86bayliner

 

[Scaaty]

Re: running a little off timing

Originally posted by 86bayliner:<br />[ I'll be sure and report back when my time bomb gos off. [/QB]

Loud enough boom, and you won't BE around.