Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

[UncleWillie]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

I know the gauge is at least connected to green since that's the wire he cut the first time. Is that not correct?

I would expect it to return to the Neutral(White), not the ground.
Powering any device from the ground wire is not correct.

Measure, OHM, between the two ground pins on the Shore Power Connectors. Are they connected together?"

Are you referring to the shore power inlet on the boat or the power cord?
Both inlets are right next to each other on the port side.

Yes! The ground on Both Shore Power inlet connectors on the hull.
I suspect that they are tied together to a single common Isolator OnBoard.

I am confused that you have two inlet connections right next to each other when you apparently can only select one at a time.
Is there a logical reason for this? A picture of YOUR Power Panel might help explain it.

The solution is still, to Verify the Ground wiring on both sides of the Isolator, and test the Isolator itself.
Repair or replace as needed.

Yes, it is easier Said, than Done; But it isn't "Rocket Surgery".

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

Delete

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

have you thought about calling rinkers as im sure they wouldnt hide a servicable item where it can not be accessed. Nothing worse than tearing everything to bits to find a service entrance. I agree that its time to get a marine electrician

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

What was the cause?
This is your post title from the other site

(Stray Current Shock Solved!)

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

You need to contact a certified ABYC electrician.As for it said boat wiring isn't all that complicated that any electrician should be able to do it, is totally false. AC on a boat isn't like wiring a house. Getting shocked when out of the water means you are the return path. When in the water (fresh) the return path is the water.Check all bonding wires.

Here is a vidieo from a certified ABYC eletrican. Start at the 17min mark
Hot Docks, Hot Boats and Electric Shock Drowning - YouTube

I just remembered you have this posted on another site also.
smac999 is correct in his reply

The ABYC electrician I contacted was a waste of time and money. I'm sure there's good ones out there, but I think he just read a couple books and took a test. He thought "pollen buildup" was causing 45V of static electricity. He didn't even look behind the electrical panel. He also said the battery charger and ice maker needed to be replaced, which they didn't. I'm having better luck right now working through this forum and the 1 mechanic I got to show up.

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift



Photos from my boat

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift



Ground to Neutral using multimeter. The meter was jumping around from 5V to 72V, then decided on 45V. Had to jab it around quite a bit, it wanted to say 5V, but with enough playing got it to stay on 45V. This was on the GFI outlet in the galley, right next to the panel.


Per safety scare posts, used non ring finger, put meter on counter, and just used one hand. I'm done having kids (got 3), but still!

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

"What was the cause?
This is your post title from the other site

(Stray Current Shock Solved!)"

Not 100% sure, probably a combination of problems. Isolator and/or Voltage Gauge. I thought the problem was fixed by replacing the shore cords, but that wasn't the case. The problem still occurs when the voltage gauge is toggled up or down

 

[Thalasso]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

Google this and go to FAQ (under the pic of the tester) then to shore power. There might be something there that can help you understand what might be your problem.


Peter Kennedy Yacht Services - Marine Electrical Systems

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

the voltage gauge is on a switch as its one gauge to 2 diffrent supplys. The ground should take care of this but it is not doing its job so there is a ground problem which after testing shows that the isolator is either bad or not connected to the boat or shore ground. why not unplug the boat and drag the plug end of one cord inside and do the isolator test that you listed earlier in the posts. People will get hung up on the idea that something is wired to the ground wire which seems to go against code but there are clauses where this is acceptable especially as a diagnostic tool. The basic rule is the ground on a boat must not be allowed to float above 1.5v. It doesnt matter whats putting over 1.5v on the ground thats for the gfci and breaker to sort out if its high enoght to cause a trip condition.
You will not be able to get a non-marine electricain to work on a boat as its a liabilty issue. Ive been a electricain for 20 plus years and im not allowed to work on a boat or a house (i realy like it that way which is why i have never bothered getting state certified and liabilty insurance just to work for free on my familys problems).

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

The voltage gauge is not technically correct, But it does have the positive effect of indicating a faulty ground when it is on.
It just may be intentional.

The Voltage gauge issue would not be a serious problem, if, IF, IF the Isolator was working properly!

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

New gauge "MAY" be installed tomorrow, still waiting on the part. Once he has the panel off, I'll peek in at the isolator to see if it's possible to reach back and test it. He said the factory wires the boat, then builds everything around it, they could case less what needs to be reached once it's sold. He said the isolator location is nothing compared to replacing the bow rails on a Rinker, didn't sound fun! Maybe it's a "RINKER" thing, I've let the other 10 problems pass, but not this!

Update 5/25: Gauge will be here next Wed (5/29) now. I asked the person ordering to parts to ask Rinker if they know an easy way to access the isolator, she emailed them and will let me know. I also did some more testing/messing around. While checking the volts going to the bimini rail, it started off at 0, just the power was on and green lights were on. When I toggled up or down on the voltage gauge (RP light came on), 45V immediately went to the rail, then I put the toggle in the middle, back down to 0V (RP light was off). Then I flipped on the "outlet" breaker on the main panel, rail volts when to 5, went up about another 17V with the battery charger, and another 15 or so with the 2 refrigerators on.

With all the shore power off, I put the meter on OHMs and went to both shore power male INLETS on the boat. Within each inlet, OHMs measured OL every which way. Then I put one prong on the Shore power ground on the one inlet (the bent one), and one prong on the other inlet's ground (the other bent one), and got 0.0001

Not sure what this all means, I'm still waiting to touch something and get blown back 100 yards, NOT LOL. Just for kicks, while 45V were on the rail, I put the boat in the water and rail volts immediately went to 0V. I then stuck the multimeter red prong on the water (measuring volts), and the black to the dock and got 0V, almost like the water IS NOT electrified. I would have thought 45V would be in the water next to the dock...

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

BoatingLOZ,

Time for an Update! What Happened?

I didn't notice your edit to the last post until now.

Your measurements indicate that the House and AC inlets share a single Isolator. (Not an Issue)

The Other measurements indicate the Isolator is Inoperative
but also that the Voltages you are seeing are do to very minor leakage Currents and not a Catastrophic fault.
Once you put it in the water the Current Gradient is so small you are unable to measure it.

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

Sorry for not posting earlier. After they replaced the voltage gauge on the main panel the problem was "fixed" i.e. I wasn't getting shocked. The mechanic said something was shorting out inside the gauge (which is self contained), sending current over the ground. He said the bimini rails aren't bonded to the boat, but they are screwed into the arch which IS, so the current was passing from the arch to the bimini rails. I guess this makes sense.

The marina FINALLY got in touch with the right person at Rinker and asked them about the isolator. He said would be right behind the main panel. So evidently my boat never had an isolator! I'm going to leave well enough alone for now, probably this fall look into having an isolator installed. Thanks again for everyone's help!

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

... After they replaced the voltage gauge on the main panel the problem was "fixed" ...

So now with the Panel Meter ON, along with the Battery Charger and the 2 Refrigerators ON,
and the boat on the lift; The Shock voltage is Gone? Very Interesting!

 

[BoatingLOZ]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

Correct

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: Reverse Polarity only when boat is on lift

So now with the Panel Meter ON, along with the Battery Charger and the 2 Refrigerators ON,
and the boat on the lift; The Shock voltage is Gone? Very Interesting!

interesting maybe.....or the mechanic just wired the voltmeter to neutral instead of ground.