Replacing clutch on my mini...

[nola mike]

Finally getting ready to tackle the clutch on my '14 mini Cooper JCW. Failed after 80k miles, which apparently isn't unusual. Guessing they use the tears of mini owners as the friction material. Would like to have all parts on hand, and trying to figure out what to do while I'm in there. Needless to say, nothing is accessible or easy on this car. Or cheap. Opinions in the mini forums very widely, so I figured I'd throw it out to a boating group
It has a dual mass flywheel which is $400 at least (that's still not OEM). Consensus is to leave it alone unless it shows scoring on there. Unfortunately, won't know that until I get in there. Was also planning on replacing the RMS, but I don't think that's worth it if I'm not planning on removing the flywheel anyway (I'll have to source the bolts, plus the time needed to remove and reinstall the flywheel).
I will replace the transmission input shaft seal. Debating the output shaft seals, as those don't seem to be quite as difficult to replace if needed.
Thoughts? Especially from those with mini experience, or with knowledge about the longevity of a dual Mass flywheel. It can't be resurfaced by the way.

 

[Scott06]

Finally getting ready to tackle the clutch on my '14 mini Cooper JCW. Failed after 80k miles, which apparently isn't unusual. Guessing they use the tears of mini owners as the friction material. Would like to have all parts on hand, and trying to figure out what to do while I'm in there. Needless to say, nothing is accessible or easy on this car. Or cheap. Opinions in the mini forums very widely, so I figured I'd throw it out to a boating group
It has a dual mass flywheel which is $400 at least (that's still not OEM). Consensus is to leave it alone unless it shows scoring on there. Unfortunately, won't know that until I get in there. Was also planning on replacing the RMS, but I don't think that's worth it if I'm not planning on removing the flywheel anyway (I'll have to source the bolts, plus the time needed to remove and reinstall the flywheel).
I will replace the transmission input shaft seal. Debating the output shaft seals, as those don't seem to be quite as difficult to replace if needed.
Thoughts? Especially from those with mini experience, or with knowledge about the longevity of a dual Mass flywheel. It can't be resurfaced by the way.

We have a 2011 Mini (base non turbo). Yes big PITA to work on. Mine is an automatic so cant help much with the clutch- if you have can afford the time can't you have the flywheel machined? Its so much work to get in there I would definitely resurface or replace the flywheel and do the RMS.

As you cite the tears of mini owners, they are maintenance intensive vehicles.... I wouldn't skip those items while in there.

Different question - have you done your timing chain? We have 100 k on ours and I think it is getting noisier up top - I think it is valve train or lifter type noise but can't tell - not sure if you know if you can measure timing chain stretch with just the valve cover off? I was gonna do the valve cover gasket as it is leaking and then also see if anything was sloppy with the valve train that could be causing a noise or if the chain guides look worn...

Thanks

 

[nola mike]

You have a non-turbo *automatic*?!
Flywheel apparently can't be resurfaced. I think I'm going to roll the dice on the flywheel and RMS. I'm going to swing by the local mini mechanic and see what he says. I'll replace it if it looks scored at all, though that will cost me a week. Luckily I have nowhere to go that I 100% need the car. Mini or no, 88k miles isn't a lot, and it appears I'll be in there in another 80k regardless.

I thought that the timing chain was mostly an issue on the n14 motors, haven't looked into it too much. Guessing that you'd be able to tell if your chain is making noise by seeing if there's wear on the guides but idk.

 

[flashback]

It's been a half century since I had a car with a clutch. A throw out bearing was always on my list.

 

[Scott06]

You have a non-turbo *automatic*?!
Flywheel apparently can't be resurfaced. I think I'm going to roll the dice on the flywheel and RMS. I'm going to swing by the local mini mechanic and see what he says. I'll replace it if it looks scored at all, though that will cost me a week. Luckily I have nowhere to go that I 100% need the car. Mini or no, 88k miles isn't a lot, and it appears I'll be in there in another 80k regardless.

I thought that the timing chain was mostly an issue on the n14 motors, haven't looked into it too much. Guessing that you'd be able to tell if your chain is making noise by seeing if there's wear on the guides but idk.

the auto when used in Manual sport mode is essentially a clutchless manual ... it holds the gear until you hit redline then it automatically upshifts.

Have you had yours since new? The turbo scared me given the factory recommended oil change interval of 15 or 20k which is insane. Wife loves it (her daily). Its crazy how much more work I have done on the mini 70k to 100 k miles) vs than any of my Toyotas.

I thought it was just the earlier N14s as well- When I asked the tech guy at FCP this is the answer I got

Your vehicle has the n16 engine which did have some timing chain issues. If you're unsure if the timing has been replaced previously, I would definitely recommend replacing that as a preventative measure. Here is the kit I would recommend:

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/mini-timing-chain-kit-11318618318kt

You can see the upper guide with the valve cover removed, but you may or may not be able to see any issues. Personally, I wouldn't wait for it to start making noise, as these can fail without warning, which could mean engine replacement or repair. If you have any other questions or need anything else let us know.

I dont want to roach an engine but not looking forward to changing it out ...

 

[Scott Danforth]

Get a new DM flywheel. the crud from the clutch and other debris makes the two bits grind against each other.

im not a fan of DM flywheels because they can not be serviced.

 

[nola mike]

Went up to the local Indy shop and shot the sh!t for an hour with the mechanic (he has an e46 like my old one). Take homes:
1. Sell the mini. N18 engine not much better than the n14.
2. Except on the n14, he says don't bother with preemptive tonight chain replacement. He said you'll hear the noise and misfires/timing codes will pop up before failure.
3. The markup on car repair is absurd. I asked him about how long it would take for the clutch. He said he could do it in <3 hr, I should be able to do it without a lift in <8. Shop time is 9hrs. 20% markup on parts which are already expensive.
4. He said to go ahead and change the flywheel.

I ended up shopping around for the parts, which were hard to source in one place.
My big concern is the clutch; OEM is valeo. Multiple sites say that the 832226 is the part for my car. However, valeo's site says for non-jcw applications. It should fit.

I'm going to replace the flywheel, clutch, RMS, clutch input and output seals, some TTY bolts (of which there are 20 in the whole mini parts network per the local dealer). I got everything for $700, all OEM. Could have easily spent twice that.

 

[Scott06]

Went up to the local Indy shop and shot the sh!t for an hour with the mechanic (he has an e46 like my old one). Take homes:
1. Sell the mini. N18 engine not much better than the n14.
2. Except on the n14, he says don't bother with preemptive tonight chain replacement. He said you'll hear the noise and misfires/timing codes will pop up before failure.
3. The markup on car repair is absurd. I asked him about how long it would take for the clutch. He said he could do it in <3 hr, I should be able to do it without a lift in <8. Shop time is 9hrs. 20% markup on parts which are already expensive.
4. He said to go ahead and change the flywheel.

I ended up shopping around for the parts, which were hard to source in one place.
My big concern is the clutch; OEM is valeo. Multiple sites say that the 832226 is the part for my car. However, valeo's site says for non-jcw applications. It should fit.

I'm going to replace the flywheel, clutch, RMS, clutch input and output seals, some TTY bolts (of which there are 20 in the whole mini parts network per the local dealer). I got everything for $700, all OEM. Could have easily spent twice that.

Good info on timing chain. You ever order from these guys ?

Genuine and OEM Replacement Car Parts Online | BMW Volvo Audi VW Mercedes Porsche Saab | FCP Euro

The #1 Online Source for Genuine, OE, & OEM European Replacement Car Parts since 1986. Lifetime Replacement Guarantee, Free Shipping, and Unlimited Returns Call: 1-860-388-9001

www.fcpeuro.com

used them years ago when i had a volvo 940. Started using them again when we got the wifes mini . Nice selection of parts aftermarket and oe/ oem and kits w TTY bolts incl

 

[Scott Danforth]

I would type the Valeo part into Amazon. May save a few $. Valeo had an amazon store

 

[nola mike]

I would type the Valeo part into Amazon. May save a few $. Valeo had an amazon store

That's where I ended up getting it. Valeo store about ½ cost of fcpeuro, and $35 less than rock auto ($220/free shipping). Still comes up as not compatible with my car though. Fcp is good quality and lifetime warranty on everything they sell, but you pay for it (fcp sells the same p/n valeo, says it fits my car).

 

[nola mike]

As an aside, haven't looked into why you can't resurface a dm clutch? Guessing either it can't mount correctly with all the extra stuff on it, or that the springs make it do bad things when spinning

 

[Chris1956]

Is the flywheel damaged? I replaced lots of clutches, and never found a damaged flywheel. They seem to slip before that happens.

I pulled my speedboat with my Datsun 200SX 2.0L. I needed to replace the clutch disc often. I go to the point where I could put on in is an hour or so. I replaced the pressure plate and throwout bearing every 2X.

 

[Scott Danforth]

Is the flywheel damaged? I replaced lots of clutches, and never found a damaged flywheel. They seem to slip before that happens.

I pulled my speedboat with my Datsun 200SX 2.0L. I needed to replace the clutch disc often. I go to the point where I could put on in is an hour or so. I replaced the pressure plate and throwout bearing every 2X.

your Datsun wasnt a dual mass flywheel. it was a dumb flat round plate of castiron. Dual mass flywheels have two pros (smoothness and lack of input shaft gear damage), and a dozen cons (expensive, cant resurface, needs constant replacing, prone to chatter, prone to failure, etc.)

 

[nola mike]

Oh dear. It's a mini, but every repair seems designed to maximize pain. Took me about 18 hours easy if I'm being honest. Needed to remove subframe, which included removing steering rack. Tons of stuff in the engine compartment. Exhaust. Etc. Clutch was in rough shape, as was flywheel. I didn't end up replacing the input shaft or axle seals (looked like I needed special tools but I didn't). Replaced RMS. On the plus side, I only broke one thing ($50 exhaust clamp, thanks BMW) and had ZERO leftover bolts. I think that's a win. Also my wife won't let me get a lift. Improvised with rope. Hold my beer.

Edit: also, the valeo clutch and flywheel worked fine. Interesting that both Amazon and valeo said it was the wrong part

 

[Scott06]

Oh dear. It's a mini, but every repair seems designed to maximize pain. Took me about 18 hours easy if I'm being honest. Needed to remove subframe, which included removing steering rack. Tons of stuff in the engine compartment. Exhaust. Etc. Clutch was in rough shape, as was flywheel. I didn't end up replacing the input shaft or axle seals (looked like I needed special tools but I didn't). Replaced RMS. On the plus side, I only broke one thing ($50 exhaust clamp, thanks BMW) and had ZERO leftover bolts. I think that's a win. Also my wife won't let me get a lift. Improvised with rope. Hold my beer.

Edit: also, the valeo clutch and flywheel worked fine. Interesting that both Amazon and valeo said it was the wrong part

Yeah quiet frankly I hate our mini except for the fact that my wife loves it…such a pain to work on, which compared with my other dailies you will be working on it.

 

[nola mike]

Yeah quiet frankly I hate our mini except for the fact that my wife loves it…such a pain to work on, which compared with my other dailies you will be working on it.

To be fair, I've had it for 30k miles and it's been pretty good. It's an absolute blast to drive though; 4 seats is why I keep it (had to sell the boxster when I had kids. Sigh). Not a lot of sporty 4 seat convertibles with a stick out there. A JCW 6 speed convertible is probably a different beast than a base auto.

 

[Scott06]

To be fair, I've had it for 30k miles and it's been pretty good. It's an absolute blast to drive though; 4 seats is why I keep it (had to sell the boxster when I had kids. Sigh). Not a lot of sporty 4 seat convertibles with a stick out there. A JCW 6 speed convertible is probably a different beast than a base auto.

yes Looks good and fun to drive but mechanically they are POS. For us it was an inexpensive used car that my wife loves.
At 100 k when I look at the maint that has been done by me or PO it’s ridiculous compared to my last couple other cars 07 camry, 95 volvo 940 , 06 Highlander Hybrid. Done more work on the mini to go from 70 to100 k than 100 to 200 k on any of those three cars. It’s a shame because it is a good looking fun affordable ( purchase price not maint ) car. glad you enjoy yours. Hopefully this won’t need doing again.

 

[nola mike]

yes Looks good and fun to drive but mechanically they are POS. For us it was an inexpensive used car that my wife loves.

The free boat of the automotive world

 

[Scott Danforth]

Sounds about as intensive as changing a heater core on a PT cruiser. (It's the first thing bolted in the structure).

Now go for a drive and put a few smiles on the car

 

[nola mike]

Took @Scott Danforth advice and had a nice top down drive to the river and back. I've doubled my HP now that I can actually step on the gas Amazingly it would seem that I didn't forget to install any now inaccessible vacuum lines, connectors, etc. No CEL. Managed to install new lower shift cable on the boat, track down yet more corroded connections and get her fired up as well. Next up: Truck thermostat and gas leak when filling, corroded connections on the boat lift.