Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

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RickyGee

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I?m planning to beach my boat in a couple of months to replace the PDS bearings in the 500B/DP-C Flywheel Covers (F/C). In another thread it was noted that this can be accomplished with the F/C still installed onto the transom shield. I have the old style with the dual bearings. Access to all the F/C bolts is limited on both engines as installed, so I was planning to remove the engines and pull the F/C after the engine was out. But leaving them installed would save $300 in new donut rings, so my question:

Do the PDS bearing races typically come out fairly easily, using slide hammer type bearing pullers, or do they often require shop presses to get them out/in? This boat (1991) has a history of bellows leaking.
Thanks for any advice. -Rick
 

K-2

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

s2.jpg

I have to replace my PDS bearings this spring.
Never done it before . It is a 2 bearing like yours.
I have been told that the front bearing has to be removed "out the front"
and the rear bearing & shaft out the back. So the whole flywheel cover shaft tube piece must be removed,,,
which will make it much easier to work on. I have did a lot of searching and have yet to find good instructions / discussions on
EXACTLY how to replace the bearings & seals. Lots of info on the general subject but the bearing part is kind of vague , skimmed over.
Hopefully someone with experience will chime in and straighten out both of us:)
 
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captmello

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

I have done mine with the F/C left in the boat and will be happy to explain in detail. If you've searched and run across my thread from years back you'll see a couple posts regarding this specific topic, but without detail since I was taken to task by the late great one. I'll post back later with details. Here's a link to my original post. As you can see, I had no idea what I was doing.;)

http://forums.iboats.com/volvo-penta-i-o-inboard-gas-engines-outdrives/5-7-ltr-volvo-penta-making-odd-noise-265021.html
 

K-2

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Captmello thanks for the link.
I misunderstood the OP when I replied the first time, I thought he meant not unbolting F/C from rear of engine.
Now I see he meant leaving it attached to transom plate not attached to engine. Sorry, poor reading comprehension on my part.
I am trying to picture what Don S. said about removing snap rings and a dead blow hammer.
Remove snap rings and press or dead blow hammer the shaft and rear bearing out the "back", then remove the front bearing after the shaft is gone?
Did you have to do any alignment when you put the engine back in?
Thanks!
 

captmello

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

I'll try to describe the process as well as I can. It's been 6 years since I did the job.
I'll skip to the drive shaft removal assuming you've removed the upper gear box from the outdrive and the motor is removed, or at least slid out of the way. I will preface this by saying that if I were to do this again, I would remove the motor with the F/C attached as recommended by Don S. However, my boat is a 20' bowrider and engine pulling is about a 20 min job. I can understand if someone is working on a boat that is harder to remove the engine, the job could be much easier/quicker if you could just move the engine toward the bow, if only a foot or so while leaving the F/C attached to the transom shield.

Basically, the driveshaft can come out either way, forward or aft. But I would take it out the rear. With the upper gear box removed, you can see the PDS (primary drive shaft) sticking through the grease seal. Pull out the seal, you'll be replacing it. Behind the seal will be the first snap ring which keeps the seal from sliding in too far.

The snap rings can be a real PITA. I've seen it recommended that you buy a long needle nose pliers and grind the tips to resemble a snap ring pliers. I didn't see this until later but would have done it. I used a snap ring pliers and they just were to small. But I found that loud swearing helped a lot and I finally got them out.

Anyway, Once the first snap ring is removed you'll be able to see the aft set of bearings. there is another snap ring that holds the bearing at that point. There is also a smaller snap ring that goes around the PDS at that same depth. The smaller snap ring can be left there until after the shaft has been removed, but you still need to remove the larger ring around the outside race of the bearing. Once these two larger snap rings have been removed, you can move to the inside of the boat. At this point you should be able to pound the PDS out the back of the F/C. It should come out with the rear bearing and the smaller snap ring still attached. K2 - this is where the "Dead Blow" hammer comes into play. I don't know what a dead blow hammer is, bit I think I used a 3 pounder on a block of wood.

Inside the boat with the motor out of the way, there is another rubber seal. remove the rubber seal, and again there is a larger snap ring holding the front bearing in place. With the PDS out of the way it I should be easier to remove the snap ring. Once the snap ring is out, you can pound the bearing out the front of the housing from the rear, outside the boat using something long enough to go through the F/C and the right size to hit the bearing. I may have used a piece of 2x2 lumber...Keep in mind you don't have to worry about damaging the bearings at this point since they are going in the garbage.

So now you should have everything out. you just need to remove the small snap ring from the PDS and remove the rear bearing from the PDS. I think I used some PVC pipe to drive the bearing off. I'm in the home remodeling business so I've got those type of things kicking around the shop.

Clean up all the grease from the F/C and your ready for installation. Install is pretty much the opposite. You'll just need to be creative when it comes to installing the bearings so you don't damage them. start by installing the front bearing into the F/C followed by the front snap ring. Next install the rear bearing onto the PDS. I think I actually supported the bearing on something and drove the PDS into the bearing. And install the small snap ring. Now install the PDS in from the back of the boat. Again, you'll need something that will put the pressure on the outside race of the bearing to avoid damage. then install the larger snap ring that sits against the rear bearing, and the snap ring that holds the aft seal. Once you get to this point, I would pump grease in through the zerk on top of the F/C until is start oozing through the bearings. Once the seals are installed you don't want to overgrease as it can cause the seals to pop out. I've also heard of people recommending gluing in the front seal to try to avoid this, but I didn't. Once you've got it greased, install the seals the way described in this link http://forums.iboats.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124018&d=1322930991

well that was a lot of typing and I may have missed something. Feel free to correct me or ask any questions if something seems "off".
 

K-2

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Thank You! Excellent job, that is easy to follow and understand. Understanding the job, getting a clear mental picture makes it so much easier.
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Excellent info Captmello. Thanks. I read your post a while back and it was Don's comments that made me think removing the F/C from the transom shield was a practical necessity. With you filling in the "how", it makes sense, especially the cussing part. I'm sure when I get into mine, I'll be inventing a few new 4 letter words myself. The OH manual page you link to has an excellent cross section view and order of disassembly which matches your description, but hearing that oak blocks and PVC pipe will do the trick is exactly what I needed to hear. For me, the deciding factor will probably be whether I can get to the F/C bolts with the engine installed or will have to remove the whole thing. Here's a couple picts of the beast...P1010037.jpgP1010007.jpg

These picts were taken 5 years ago before I bought the boat and cleaned things up...
 
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K-2

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

030.jpg
I'm jealous of all your room!;)
This is from front of engine looking at the transom, overhead is cabin floor and does NOT remove.
I will have to unbolt from transom shield & motor mounts , move everything forward then unbolt F/C from engine and remove from boat to work on, engine will not leave boat. Good luck! I am sitting on a trailer. cannery1.jpg
 

captmello

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Excellent info Captmello. Thanks. I read your post a while back and it was Don's comments that made me think removing the F/C from the transom shield was a practical necessity. With you filling in the "how", it makes sense, especially the cussing part. I'm sure when I get into mine, I'll be inventing a few new 4 letter words myself. The OH manual page you link to has an excellent cross section view and order of disassembly which matches your description, but hearing that oak blocks and PVC pipe will do the trick is exactly what I needed to hear. For me, the deciding factor will probably be whether I can get to the F/C bolts with the engine installed or will have to remove the whole thing. Here's a couple picts of the beast...View attachment 226382View attachment 226383

These picts were taken 5 years ago before I bought the boat and cleaned things up...

To me your boat looks like good candidate for the "slide the motor forward and work on it" method. Or some kind of gantry set up on the back deck could lift the engine up and out...That is one big barge you've got there. What is the size of your boat?
 

captmello

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

View attachment 226396
I'm jealous of all your room!;)
This is from front of engine looking at the transom, overhead is cabin floor and does NOT remove.
I will have to unbolt from transom shield & motor mounts , move everything forward then unbolt F/C from engine and remove from boat to work on, engine will not leave boat. Good luck! I am sitting on a trailer. View attachment 226398

Wow, that is tight. Cool looking boat. What is the purpose of that boat? Fishing? Is it aluminum?
 

billbayliner

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

If this is the double bearing PDS F/C (typically red and with the grease port), after the engine has been removed, the PDS can be driven AFT once the AFT seal and two snap rings have been removed.
No puller is needed.

The 6206 AFT bearing will come out with the PDS.
The 6007 FWD bearing will remain, and will be driven FWD once it's seal and snap ring has been removed.
Again..... no puller is required.

By leaving the F/C in place, neither rubber cushion will be disturbed.
Nor will you need to go through the "triangulation" alignment procedure..... unless you disturb the side engine mounts.

See post #18 here for a good image of the PDS and bearings.
(remove all spaces and paste into your browser)

http://www. marineengine. com/boat-forum/showthread. php?415407-which-shop-manual-for-AQ-280

Do not forget how important it is to prefill the grease cavity prior to installing the two new seals.
Glue or stake the forward seal in place, and make sure that the aft seal is installed in the non-conventional direction.

When you lube these in the future, make sure that the engine is running.
 
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billbayliner

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Did you have to do any alignment when you put the engine back in?
Yes......... if you did remove the F/C with the engine and if you did loosen the side engine mount stud nuts [rather than removing the lag bolts].
This requires a 1-time triangulation procedure.

No....... if you left the F/C attached to the transom shield, and if the side engine mounts studs were not disturbed [as in the lag bolts were pulled].
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

To me your boat looks like good candidate for the "slide the motor forward and work on it" method. Or some kind of gantry set up on the back deck could lift the engine up and out...That is one big barge you've got there. What is the size of your boat?

The "Cuckoo's Nest" is a 75 footer with a 15' beam, about 85k lbs. The VP duo props really bite and help with maneuvering, especially when joining up with a flotilla in a cove. The picture doesn't show the fuel tanks which are in front of the engines. There's hardly enough room to stand in front. I have an engine hoist and plan to pull the engines up to the deck level. After seeing the limited spaces on the Karen C, I'm suddenly feeling grateful I can get them out of the way.
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

View attachment 226396
I'm jealous of all your room!;)
This is from front of engine looking at the transom, overhead is cabin floor and does NOT remove.
I will have to unbolt from transom shield & motor mounts , move everything forward then unbolt F/C from engine and remove from boat to work on, engine will not leave boat. Good luck! I am sitting on a trailer. View attachment 226398

...and I'm jealous you're sitting on a trailer:joyous: The Karen C looks like a really nice boat. I don't envy your tight engine spaces, though. I don't bend like I used to (had my back fused) and I don't think I could do what you have to do. Good Luck!:encouragement:
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

The 6007 FWD bearing will remain, and will be driven FWD once it's seal and snap ring has been removed.
Again..... no puller is required.

Thanks Bill, excellent info. What did you use to drive the FWD bearing out, an oak dowel or brass drift or something similar through the cavity from the aft end? BTW, I tried your link but even after removing the spaces it didn't work...I must be doing something wrong.
 

captmello

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

The "Cuckoo's Nest" is a 75 footer with a 15' beam, about 85k lbs. The VP duo props really bite and help with maneuvering, especially when joining up with a flotilla in a cove. The picture doesn't show the fuel tanks which are in front of the engines. There's hardly enough room to stand in front. I have an engine hoist and plan to pull the engines up to the deck level. After seeing the limited spaces on the Karen C, I'm suddenly feeling grateful I can get them out of the way.

Bigger than my house! From the pics it looks like the motors should come straight up and out. Like billbayliner mentioned, pull the lag bolts so you don't change the height of the motor mounts. Once the lags are out you'll need to slide the motor forward a couple inches for the PDS to clear the vibration damper which is bolted to the flywheel. I hope you'll document this project when the time comes. It's going to be fun to watch.:)
 

billbayliner

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Sorry for the link not working.
Try going to Marine Engine dot com and find the Volvo Penta forum.
The thread is titled "which shop manual for AQ 280".
See post #18.


http: // www. (insert Marine Engine dot com here..... remove all spaces) /boat-forum/ showthread. php? 415407 -which-shop-manual-for-AQ-280

Someone asked about driving the 6007 bearing out from AFT.
Yes.... a wooden dowel, aluminum punch, brass punch, etc, will do the job.]
The new 6007 installs after the PDS with the new 6206 has been installed from AFT.
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Getting to that link was worth the effort. Thank you again. A picture is truely worth a thousand words.
 

RickyGee

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Well, I pulled the trigger and bought 4ea TVC100010G GKN 18mm UHD ujoint spiders from the only importer online in the USA. I also got the bearings and seals from VolvoPenta (iboats) and was surprised to see that OEM VP bearings were SKF, made in USA and Argentina and the seals were made in China. It's a small world... I'll post when I put them in, on how well they fit. Still planning to do this monster job over the week of Memorial Day.
 

K-2

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Re: Replace PDS bearings with flywheel cover installed?

Going back together,,,,A few engine alignment questions:
Front of engine sits on the mounts, no height changes,,,,,rear is now supported by 2 small come-alongs,,,,so do I just center up by eye, the rear of flywheel cover,,,center it in the transom shield? Then bolt on the rear ring and squeeze the 2 doughnuts? Then bolt down the front and check alignment?
If it needs alignment do I leave the rear all bolted up and just adjust the 2 front motor mounts,,,counting on the rubber to flex? What if it needs side to side adjustment?
When I bolt up the rear will the metal ring and the face it mates to on the flywheel cover,,,will that be metal to metal?
Getting the rear bolted together and centered seems so random, haphazard,,,or am I looking at this wrong?

Thanks
 
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