Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

[Zachdog]

Blew a cylinder on a '00 200 saltwater series with about 100 hours on it, just months after warranty expired. Moral of the story is to buy the extended warranty. In the interim, even though the warranty expired and Yamaha tells me I'm out of luck, has anyone any experience in getting some satisfaction from them given that there was clearly some engine defect? I was religious about maintaining sufficient oil (Yamalube), clean gas, regular servicing, and I don't ride it hard. Any suggestions?

 

[rickdb1boat]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Do you know the reason it blew yet? That might help to determine if you would have any action at all.

 

[Zachdog]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

The best guess according to the dealer/service dept. is that oil wasn't getting into one of the cylinders for some reason, which caused it to overheat. They don't know why that might have happened but they don't suggest a lot of investigation so long as it is out of warranty.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

In other words, the dealer don't know or is beating around the bush. I've never seen a failure of just one port of the oil injection system. Bet one of the carbs leaned out and caused a piston to overheat and melt. This would be caused by a fuel problem, not oiling. Even if you had bought one of the extended warranties, most of them don't cover failures of the powerhead due to lean fuel mixtures. I get so tired of oiling systems getting blamed for powerhead failures when the cause was dirty carbs.

 

[Zachdog]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Capt. Ken--the only other problem I ever had with the engine was a malfunctioning oxygen sensor, which caused a loss of rpm. That was replaced about a year ago. Can a malfunctioning oxygen sensor cause a lean fuel mix? If so, maybe that was a cause of the problem or at least it could be easier to convince Yamaha as much since they acknowledged they had a problem with these sensors. <br /><br />I'm not that knowledgeable about engines so maybe I'm way off.

 

[DJ]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Zachdog,<br /><br />Is this an EFI engine? If so, you might have a chance. You cannot control the EFI system.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

If the facts are that this engine is out of warranty by a few months. You need a large Yamaha selling dealer, or a guy who knows how to stand up to the manufacture. I have been told so many times by a manufacture that its not covered. You gust have to keep calling till you get the correct tech rep. If this is a ligit case I would not give up. Yamaha will give you a hardship case and pay for the parts and you eat the labor. The question of the day would be if you protected the engines fuel system for long term storage. Four weeks or more if you didnt and can prove it then you ate this powerhead. I firmly believe if the engine is under warranty you need to have the engine serviced by a good yamaha dealer to protect you from this gray area. If you have done all the service that is required then Yamaha should help you. In the back of the factory service manual there is a pm chart if you do you own service under warranty you need to follow to the t and have documentation to prove you use the products they recommened. Yamaha doesnt want you walking the docks bad mouthing there product. If you have done your part they will do theres. You need to be firm and non emotional. Vinney

 

[Forktail]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Sometimes Yamaha offers a special adjustment to pay all or part of the cost of certain repairs beyond the warranty terms. But you have to have a good case, and be very diplomatic and professional. Vinegar won't get you anywhere. Skip the dealer and get right to Yamaha.<br /><br />Overheating isn't generally caused by the lack of oil into one cylinder. The main reason oil is mixed with the fuel in a 2-stroke is for crankcase lubrication. A passage usually connects the intake port to the crankcase interior and passes the oil/fuel mixture through the crankcase this way. An oil injection problem will cause crankshaft bearing failure, con rod bearing failure, etc and other problems first. Cylinder wall lubrication isn't as critical because the intake fuel itself acts as a coolant and lubricant for the piston/cylinder. <br /><br />It looks like the O2 sensor problem you had was fixed. Shouldn't have anything to do with the overheating or a lean fuel mixture. When O2 sensors fail, they usually go rich. <br /><br />I would guess something else caused the failure. For example, prolonged exposure to water spray (from a depthfinder sending unit) being sucked into the intake could cause the same failure. More commonly its stale or poor fuel. This engine should be EFI.<br /><br />Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

I have never seen or heard of Yahama sending parts to the owner of a boat. They dont ship powerheads to customers under warranty. You need to work this thru a good dealer. You can go over the dealers head and get yourself all stressed out. A good dealer has a good relationship with the manufacture. The dealer is the eyes and ears for the manufacture. If you represent Yamaha well they will back up the dealer. Yamaha knows the good guys from the bad guys. I have asked them befor to help out and they always do the right thing. V

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Dang, should have asked if it was EFI, but then all 200's were EFI that year. Dang, the mind must be going again. Gee I hate to go through that straightjacket thing again.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Warranty claims and any adustments outside the warranty period are ultimately decided by Yamaha, not your dealer.<br /><br />Yes vinney going through a good reputable dealer first is good advice. But in this case it looks like the dealer didn't go to bat if there truly was a defect. Dealers can assume things won't be covered when they may. Dealers can stonewall you because they are afraid the repair will cost them. They can tell you they talked with the factory, etc, etc, when they might not have talked with anyone. In fact they might not have even submitted the warranty claim. This is why contacting Yamaha directly can work in your favor.<br /><br />I had a Yamaha outboard under warranty located in a remote area (no roads for a thousand miles) that needed a part. I could not get a dealer to understand what I needed for the life of me. Without wasting more time, I contacted Yamaha directly and they sent me the part in the mail (which included a Super Cub drop at my expense!). This was a special case. Ususally Yamaha won't ship parts directly to you, but they will send them to a dealer of your choice and let you pick the dealer to do the repairs. I have even heard of Yamaha sending parts and authorizing warranty service to non-Yamaha dealerships, especially in remote areas where authorized dealers don't exist.<br /><br />Every case is different and this is why it may be critical to contact Yamaha directly.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[Capt Ken]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Every Yamaha dealer has a certain amount of browie points with Yamaha depending on how big a dealer they are. They can use these brownie points to get so call favors out of Yamaha. Now depending on how good a customer you are of the dealership is a determining factor on if they want to use brownie points on you or not. Now did you buy that engine from that dealership or somewhere else? Have you been a pain in the rump? Do they expect lots of work out of you in the future? A lot of things factor into the dealership going to bat for you or not.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Thank you. The system works aslong you are not smarter than the system. If a customer went over my head he would be looking for another dealer.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Every customer has a right to "go over a dealer's head". The dealer's doesn't have the last word. It's spelled out right in the warranty that you purchase with your outboard. Many warranty claims have been denied by the dealer....only to be later covered by the factory. This can only happen if the customer goes over the dealer's head. Some dealers are great. Others are pathetic.<br /><br />A good dealer does all he can for his customer, and encourages that customer to contact the factory if they are not happy with the factory's decision to deny warranty. Dealers intimidating customers if they go over their heads, or refuse to service the customer's factory product that they franchise....usually end up in big trouble.<br /><br />If a dealer is worried about you "going over his head"....give another dealer your business.<br /><br />And that my friend is the "system" that works. Maybe not for the dealer....but at least for the consumer.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

We service mostly fishing boats and go fast boats. Thirty feet plus multiply engines 200,225,250. I have never herd of stories like yours. Most of my customers own there own business and dont have the time to call the factory. They leave that up to us to handle there problems. I have never had a customer help me with the manufacture. They usally slow the process down. Men let other men do there job. I dont need help. We always get the job done.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

I have a shadow and its not four o'clock. Semper Fi

 

[araiha]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

Hats off to good dealers that care about their customers.<br /><br />However, when you find that all too frequent one that is either incompetent or doesn't care, go over their head if you are sunk in with them for doing the work. Put your issues in writing as well! Yamaha will listen and help expedite the situation. They did for me. They also sent out a tech to survey the the dealership and help pull their head out of their A$$. A dealership can lose the right to be a Yamaha dealer and this is a big hammer for compliance.

 

[Forktail]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

vinney, why don't you want customers contacting the manufacturer? <br /><br />Why should customers be stuck, totally reliant, and dead-ended at the dealer level?<br /><br />$30,000+ is a lot of money to spend on a set of outboards. Don't customers deserve more than a shake of the head "no" from the dealer level?<br /><br />"Men let other men do there job."<br /><br />That's a dealer's mentality, and it only holds true if the job is done fairly and correctly and the customer is happy with it.<br /><br />"Real men" take care of things themselves. And that includes calling the factory if the dealer's service is unacceptable. Sorry you don't like that, but that's the way it is.<br /><br />You're probably a great dealer vinney. Not directing this toward you personally. I wish all dealers were as competent as you say.<br /><br />Good luck.

 

[vinney]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

My shadow

 

[plywoody]

Re: Relief from Yamaha for Engine Failure

I would *always* go over the dealers head and directly to the manufacturer if I thought I had a legitimate claim and did not immediately get satisfaction from the dealer.<br /><br />A dealer must follow prescibed proceedures on warranty work, or risk not getting reimbursed for it. Thus they are not at all flexible, nor should they be expected to be. The only one that can alter in any way the terms of the warranty more favorably is the manufacturer, and why a dealer would worry about someone "going over their head" is a mystery to me. The customer has more at stake, and the dealer doesn't usually like to take the time to fight the manufacturer, and the worse that can happen to the dealer in this case, assuming he followed proceedures, is that the manufacurer ok's the warranty, and he gets some work, or the manufacturer denies the claim, in which case they, and not the dealer, are the bad guy.<br />Why would a dealer complain about this?<br /><br />John