Recommission of an old favourite

[Gettinther]

Pictures attached several questions.
I was given this Grew 204/225 OMC Stringer drive and winterized, as it is after sitting outside under tarp for 10 years. The hull and floors are excellent,glass is almost perfect.

However , the engine ,305 GM is siezed solid,(I see a 350 in the near future) can't move it with a 32 inch johnston bar and socket after soaking it with penetrating oil, the Quadrajet carb is loaded with this white crap and the coating is coming off the inside of the carb bowl as well, the outdrive was rebuilt 10 years ago, never used and shows no sign of oil leakage.
Serial numbers to follow.

Any idea what might help or will it be possible to loosen the engine ?
What would be the best to clean this carb or just replace it ?
What service should the outdrive have before using it provided I get it to run

 

[superbenk]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

You could check out http://www.dougrussell.com or http://sterndrive.info for parts & replacement motor options. Going to be tough finding some of those parts for that vintage of drive system.

 

[oldsub86]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

I think I would investigate a bit further and keep at it for a bit. You don't say what else you you have done so far. Pull the plugs. Any sign of water in the cylinders? Blow some air in through the plug hole with an air hose and see if water blows back out at you.

What does the oil look like? is there any sign of water in it?

Pull the outdrive. It could be what is seized rather than the engine etc. If the engine still won't turn over after the outdrive is removed, then check the engine a bit further.

You might pour something like diesel fuel into the cylinders and let it sit a bit before trying to turn it over again. Don't put the plugs back in when you try to turn it over. Wouldn't want to hydro lock it.

If it still won't move after a few days of sitting with diesel in the cylinders, then you may need to tear it down to have a closer look. Remove the heads and have a look at the inside.

If it does turn over after a bit of soaking, then you will need to do a bit of work before trying to start it up. Change the oil, put in some new or clean plugs etc.

I should think you are going to need to rebuild the carb by the sounds of your description.

I also, don't think I would try to start using fuel from the onboard tank. Hook up a temporary tank - maybe an outboard motor tank and feed from it.

Don't try to run the motor without a water feed. You may want to put the drive back on and back the trailer into the water before trying to start up.

At this point, you are going to want to ensure that the outdrive and the intermediate housing have oil too - type C!

Make sure the water is flowing when you start it up. Is the impeller good enough to at least try it. I don't think I would tear into the drive to look at it but I would sure be careful if I did get it to go. Wouldn't want to overheat things and cause more damage.

If you do get it to run, then I think I would run it a bit and then check the compression to see what sort of shape the motor appears to be in.

By the way, I have a sister ship to yours - a Slickcraft SS215 with the same engine and drive - also acquired as a gift. Unfortunately, it suffered a different fate - the previous owners ran it low on oil and ruined everything inside the engine. I have yet to decide if I will repair it or move on. I would like to rebuild the transom and install a Mercruiser but it is a BIG job.

Keep us posted on what happens.

Randy

 

[CobiaXL]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

She's a beaut.....

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

I think I would investigate a bit further and keep at it for a bit. You don't say what else you you have done so far. Pull the plugs. Any sign of water in the cylinders? Blow some air in through the plug hole with an air hose and see if water blows back out at you.

What does the oil look like? is there any sign of water in it?

Pull the outdrive. It could be what is seized rather than the engine etc. If the engine still won't turn over after the outdrive is removed, then check the engine a bit further.

You might pour something like diesel fuel into the cylinders and let it sit a bit before trying to turn it over again. Don't put the plugs back in when you try to turn it over. Wouldn't want to hydro lock it.

If it still won't move after a few days of sitting with diesel in the cylinders, then you may need to tear it down to have a closer look. Remove the heads and have a look at the inside.

If it does turn over after a bit of soaking, then you will need to do a bit of work before trying to start it up. Change the oil, put in some new or clean plugs etc.

I should think you are going to need to rebuild the carb by the sounds of your description.

I also, don't think I would try to start using fuel from the onboard tank. Hook up a temporary tank - maybe an outboard motor tank and feed from it.

Don't try to run the motor without a water feed. You may want to put the drive back on and back the trailer into the water before trying to start up.

At this point, you are going to want to ensure that the outdrive and the intermediate housing have oil too - type C!

Make sure the water is flowing when you start it up. Is the impeller good enough to at least try it. I don't think I would tear into the drive to look at it but I would sure be careful if I did get it to go. Wouldn't want to overheat things and cause more damage.

If you do get it to run, then I think I would run it a bit and then check the compression to see what sort of shape the motor appears to be in.

By the way, I have a sister ship to yours - a Slickcraft SS215 with the same engine and drive - also acquired as a gift. Unfortunately, it suffered a different fate - the previous owners ran it low on oil and ruined everything inside the engine. I have yet to decide if I will repair it or move on. I would like to rebuild the transom and install a Mercruiser but it is a BIG job.

Keep us posted on what happens.

Randy

First let me say thanks to both you and cobiaXL. and you have a good lookin boat.
I like yer trailer.

Your right I didn't tell you I took the plugs out to inject the penetrating oil, so now it got some diesel as well.
When I took the plugs out originally a couple were scary especially #2#3 , rust and water and stuff. The sparkplug on #3 was rust pitted to the threads.

When I pulled the dipstick the oil on it looked like new, but way over full so I removed the dipstick tube and out came clear water.

The oil looked like someone had poured mushroom soup in the oil pan after about a couple gallons of water ran out. After it drained for about 3 hours I changed the oil filter and refilled the engine with fresh oil.
Then I went at the carb with cleaner and seafoam and a new kit, it actually looked better than expected when done and I reinstalled it

With the spark plugs out I hooked the battery charger to the battery with a remote starter button on the starter, a bar and socket on the balancer bolt. After ,about an hour actually, WOW its starting to move but the complete distributor moved under the clamp so I removed it to find it was just as siezed as the engine,so I kept at cranking the engine as much as I dared with out over heating the starter and a couple hours later I got a full turn on the crank shaft. I relubed the cylinders with sea foam after each few turns and now she spins like a top on the starter but doesn't sound right.
I then hold my finger over each plug hole and feel for compression but #3 doesn't have any, so removed the rocker cover and the valves are partly siezed , more sea foam and a few taps with a hammer and they now move properly and #3 now has at least some pressure.
I haven't done a compression check yet as I want to hear it run first.
So at the end of the day I have it cranking over , completely disassembled the distributor, cleaned and lubed it and reassembled it by flashlite on the back porch, cleaned the carb and installed a GLM kit and reinstalled it too Tomorrow is another day and hopefully we go to the river and see if she will run or not.

Sorry about the long story but I just wanna see what I have and if I can get her on the move once more.

 

[Lou C]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Beautiful old boat, might actually be worth a re-power, I'd look into rebuilding the transom so you can convert it to a Mercruiser drive and not have to worry about OMC parts issues....
How solid are the deck and the stringers? That's a big project for sure but I don't think it makes any sense to put any money into the stringer drivetrain at this point. That boat with a 5.7 V-8 Alpha drive would be well powered....

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Thank you
Actually the complete hull is in great shape, even the bilge is clean as a whip.I haven't even found anyplace the fibreglass has started to lift but I'm still looking.The mess you see there now is from me draining fluids and trying to unseize the engine.And I got it spinning free now . If this doesn't work out I have a mercruiser doner parked right beside her. The other boat is a 228 /305 upgraded to a 350, good to about 47mph on gps it works pretty nice but the hull is showing its age yet its a newer boat than the Grew.

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Well Gents we took her to the launch installed the old plugs , static timed the engine, added fuel, backed her down the launch still tied to the trailer and hit the Key. Cranked over like it was hydro locked but I persisted got it to roll over a few times and she fired up.Ran on a few less than 8 cylinders till she burned off the diesel fuel and penetrating oil, blowby like no tomorrow oil pressure at approx 1000 rpm was 35psi so i let it run for about 15 min. temp started to rise to an unsafe 200 degrees then dropped to about 180.I let it keep running for probably another 15 min and the temp was on the rise at 200 degrees I shut her off. After it cooled for a few min just to try it I tried to start it again, it did restart but cranked like it was hydro locked again so i shut it off and took it back home. Will check to see what i find tomorrow.

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Thank you for the info superbenk, Igot a chance to look at them for a short while

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Well people here is the latest. I wasn't able to do much with this boat for a few days , work kinda spoils the fun sometimes, anyway i got to inspecting a few things like thermostat and circulation pump which both seem to be fine .

Question - Is there any way to tell if the raw water pump is pumping sufficient amount of water or do ya just replace the impeller??? How can I tell whats good or not??
I believe this is an 800 outdrive.

When I put her in the water the outdrive in down and no hydrolock anymore. I am testing this in the lake at the lanch.

This was supposed to be new when the unit was rebuilt, long time back but new just the same. It is pumping but i don't know if it is enough . If the picture showed up notice how basic the manifolds are , very simple and low profile. These manifolds look like new inside and out,the thermostat housing is equally in good looking shape.

The temp of the engine will keep rising untill its not safe to run.

Any way this is where it stands at this point, over heats , otherwise looks like it will run well, but I can't test drive it while it will overheat.

 

[oldsub86]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Based on your photo, it is not an 800 drive. It is the older electric shift stringer drive.
The 800 is a newer hydro mechanical shift drive.

Randy

 

[F14CRAZY]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

I've heard of piston rings just "freeing up" after running...you may get lucky and it'll develop enough compression to make it not worth rebuilding or at least re-ringing.

I'd put a new thermostat in it (160f I think they usually are, preferably "marine" but that's your call). Just removing the thermostat can actually allow the water to flow through the engine too fast and not properly cool, or it just won't get up to operating temperature.

I personally wouldn't worry too much about having an OMC drive. Sure it's not ideal but I've been able to get a new impeller, seals, ball gears, and essentials without much trouble from GLM

 

[superbenk]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

You can disconnect the hose that runs to the thermostat housing and start the motor up with the drive on muffs or in the water. Be prepared for it to gush pretty fast (like a garden hose turned on full blast). If it's pumping water through that hose to the thermostat, you know the impeller is working & you'll have to look elsewhere. Could be bad thermostat or a blockage somewhere in the cooling system.

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

thank you oldsub you are correct it is an electric shift , was my mistake I thought the 800 was an electric shift thank you again

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

F14CRAZY thank you as well , wouldn't put anything but marine part on my boat, especially when safety is involved or trying to make something right, I'm just kinda funny that way.

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Thank you superbenk I tried just what you suggested,the water flows out that hose but I'm not sure if it is sufficient. Should it actually make a decent amount of pressure or just have a soft flow at approx 1000 rpm??

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

I decided to recheck the water flow as you suggested. The flow has gotten far worse since I first tried it, so that would seem to be the current problem now for the repair I will try an get a video up of checking it.
Thanks again superbenk.

Here is the link to video of raw water pump output test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYWBncr9aP0
let me know if the video worked, thank you

AS you will notice there was very little water and no pressure untill i pinched the hose

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

I decided to recheck the water flow as you suggested. The flow has gotten far worse since I first tried it, so that would seem to be the current problem now for the repair I will try an get a video up of checking it.
Thanks again superbenk.

Here is the link to video of raw water pump output test
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYWBncr9aP0
let me know if the video worked, thank you

AS you will notice there was very little water and no pressure untill i pinched the hose

UPDATE
What do you suppose happened to this
I am thinking water was left in it to become hard and it wasn't me
Finally got enough time to open up the drive and check the raw water pump, what a mess.
The new one should be here tomorrow. Everything else is serviceable that I can see in there, I also need a new transom boot so I will do that while I have the drive off

 

[GMC2003]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Looks like the drive was left in the up position one winter. If I'm correct, you're supposed to leave the drive in the down position during the winter so the water can drain..... and this won't happen. It's good your replacing it though, it ain't much fun is it?

 

[Gettinther]

Re: Recommission of an old favourite

Looks like the drive was left in the up position one winter. If I'm correct, you're supposed to leave the drive in the down position during the winter so the water can drain..... and this won't happen. It's good your replacing it though, it ain't much fun is it?

GMC ya could be right this boat sat for 10 years so anything is possible but I never really found the job difficult at all, Oh by the way This is an update The new raw water pump is installed and works like Niagra Falls that sucker pumps like crazy.took me approximately 2 hours, first one of these I ever had apart but I can see where some things could be a pain for sure.

Any way as it goes that part of the recommision is done, now a transom boot , and got to get this chevy runnin smooth.
I cleaned the carb and installed a kit but it sure runs like lack of fuel or a vac leak, won't idle woth beans but if ya crack the throttle she likes it so I'm thinkin maybe the idle circuit is still plugged a bit as the carb was right full of this white crap.