puzzled 88 85 hp has strong spark on number 2 cylinder and super weak spark on 1,3

[o4rudeboy]

1 and 3 have weak spark old stator failed on the blue3 and 4 yellow wire circuit. i swapped on a good working cdi and coil set before i knew the stator had failed. i ran it for a few hours and it ran ok and then started acting up i started to read and dig into it and that led me to discover the bad stator i put in a new one and i only have good spark on cylinder 2 between 4 cdi and 6 coils . i have confirmed trigger works by swapping them all around to the cdi wires for 2 and they all fire 2 . i have done the same with the coils from cdi 1 and 2 . my question is how likely am i right that i need a new cdi . one set had a very weak spark on 1 and 3 but a fat spark on 2 switched cdi around still only #2 is good whats going on here

 

[racerone]

Sorry , I do not know what " super weak spark " is.----I do not know what " fat spark " is either.----Use a proper test device.----Does spark jump a gap of 3/8" on all leads ----What size gap can it jump on each lead ?

 

[o4rudeboy]

im using the bulb type spark tester so there is no way to set a gap but the good cylinder is super strong and im sure would test in spec where as the 1 and 3 cylinder would definitely not jump much of any gap ,it barely illuminates the light in the bulb. i have to stare at it closely to see a tiny subtle flicker . does that clear it up for you thanks for the reply Racerone i know you know these motors very well .

 

[racerone]

I would say you do not have spark on #1 and #3 cylinder.----Should be easy to figure out I think.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Thought I posted in here yesterday???????????
WHY??? did they remove my post???
Get a good spark tester.

 

[The Force power]

Thought I posted in here yesterday???????????
WHY??? did they remove my post???
Get a good spark tester.

Double post

 

[o4rudeboy]

ive had it i think ill just save for a cdi it has to be the issue everything else seems fine i replaced y connectors cleaned grounds and confirmed triggers all work and all coils fire when hooked up to the good lead out of the number one cdi i just dont get how the issue is the same in both cdi actually one has no spark on 1,3 the othe has a faint on 1 and 3 is it possible my bad stator killed half the cdi on both

 

[o4rudeboy]

Double post

im saving that 8 bucks for the part i think my bulb style tell the story well enough to know whats going on and its been a really bad season work wise smh.

 

[The Force power]

ive had it i think ill just save for a cdi it has to be the issue everything else seems fine i replaced y connectors cleaned grounds and confirmed triggers all work and all coils fire when hooked up to the good lead out of the number one cdi i just dont get how the issue is the same in both cdi actually one has no spark on 1,3 the othe has a faint on 1 and 3 is it possible my bad stator killed half the cdi on both

"all coils fire when hooked up to the good lead out of the number one cdi i just dont get how the issue is the same in both cdi actually one has no spark on 1,3 the othe has a faint on 1 and 3"

The above writing does not make any sense to me ?? ( I guess because I'm Canadian)
Anyways;
cdi-pack #1 controls Cyl.1 & 2
cdi-pack #2 controls Cyl.3 (& 4 if applicable)
So by switching leads around 1 & 3 should not be together acting up! only 1 & 2 OR 3 at the time.
Have to re-checked your wiring hook-up / checked for good grounds on the bracket? as I suggested in your "old post"
I suspect the issue lies there

 

[The Force power]

im saving that 8 bucks for the part i think my bulb style tell the story well enough to know whats going on

Matter of opinion

 

[Nordin]

As I mentioned in the other post of this issue you have to either check the output voltage for the triggers, the stator and the CDI boxes with a DVA meter and/or check how far the ignition coils can jump the spark, as raceone suggest.
Your bulb spark tester are not a good tool for troubleshooting it gives signal but the spark is to weak to jump the plugs during compression.
This is from my own experience.
You will find the values of the output voltage for each component at outboardignitiondotcom web site or at CDI Electronic,
They have troubleshoot charts.
The ignition coils should jump a spark for at least 3/8 in or more in atmosphere.
When I have read your post a couple of times, I think you maybe have one bad CDI box.
There are a blocking diod in the CDI box that have the purpose to block the CDI boxes to interfere with each other (there are many post in this forum about this issue).
This diod maybe is failing in one of the CDI boxes.

 

[Redbarron%%]

Here is what the CDI troubleshooting guide has to say about two cylinders with no spark:
NO SPARK ON TWO CYLINDERS: 1. If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not spark, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above. 2. If the engine has a CDI stator installed: A. If #1 and #3 are the ones not firing, disconnect the Yellow stator wire from the # 1 pack and see if the #3 cylinder starts firing. Is so, replace the #1 pack. If not, then reconnect the Yellow stator wire to the # 1 pack and disconnect the Yellow stator wire from the # 2 pack and see if the #1 cylinder starts firing. If so, replace the # 2 pack. B. If #2 and #4 are the ones not firing, disconnect the Blue stator wire from the # 1 pack and see if the #4 cylinder starts firing. Is so, replace the #1 pack. If not, then reconnect the Blue stator wire to the # 1 pack and disconnect the Blue stator wire from the # 2 pack and see if the #2 cylinder starts firing. If so, replace the # 2 pack.

https://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/7th-Edition-Troubleshooting-Guide_RS.pdf

 

[o4rudeboy]

"all coils fire when hooked up to the good lead out of the number one cdi i just dont get how the issue is the same in both cdi actually one has no spark on 1,3 the othe has a faint on 1 and 3"

The above writing does not make any sense to me ?? ( I guess because I'm Canadian)
Anyways;
cdi-pack #1 controls Cyl.1 & 2
cdi-pack #2 controls Cyl.3 (& 4 if applicable)
So by switching leads around 1 & 3 should not be together acting up! only 1 & 2 OR 3 at the time.
Have to re-checked your wiring hook-up / checked for good grounds on the bracket? as I suggested in your "old post"
I suspect the issue lies there

thank you, im sorry its confusing. i had swapped the cdi boxes around to see if the issue changed and it did not i am 100 percent sure the wires are installed correctly i put them back the same way they were before the issue started, and they are matching the factory diagram but 1 ,3 has no spark at all i will go ahead and buy the better spark tester after i try the unplugging of the yellow and blue wires and rechecking as recommended

 

[o4rudeboy]

Here is what the CDI troubleshooting guide has to say about two cylinders with no spark:
NO SPARK ON TWO CYLINDERS: 1. If two cylinders from the same CD unit will not spark, the problem is usually in the stator. Test per above. 2. If the engine has a CDI stator installed: A. If #1 and #3 are the ones not firing, disconnect the Yellow stator wire from the # 1 pack and see if the #3 cylinder starts firing. Is so, replace the #1 pack. If not, then reconnect the Yellow stator wire to the # 1 pack and disconnect the Yellow stator wire from the # 2 pack and see if the #1 cylinder starts firing. If so, replace the # 2 pack. B. If #2 and #4 are the ones not firing, disconnect the Blue stator wire from the # 1 pack and see if the #4 cylinder starts firing. Is so, replace the #1 pack. If not, then reconnect the Blue stator wire to the # 1 pack and disconnect the Blue stator wire from the # 2 pack and see if the #2 cylinder starts firing. If so, replace the # 2 pack.

https://www.cdielectronics.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/7th-Edition-Troubleshooting-Guide_RS.pdf

thank you i will try this today

 

[o4rudeboy]

As I mentioned in the other post of this issue you have to either check the output voltage for the triggers, the stator and the CDI boxes with a DVA meter and/or check how far the ignition coils can jump the spark, as raceone suggest.
Your bulb spark tester are not a good tool for troubleshooting it gives signal but the spark is to weak to jump the plugs during compression.
This is from my own experience.
You will find the values of the output voltage for each component at outboardignitiondotcom web site or at CDI Electronic,
They have troubleshoot charts.
The ignition coils should jump a spark for at least 3/8 in or more in atmosphere.
When I have read your post a couple of times, I think you maybe have one bad CDI box.
There are a blocking diod in the CDI box that have the purpose to block the CDI boxes to interfere with each other (there are many post in this forum about this issue).
This diod maybe is failing in one of the CDI boxes.

i checked output voltage on triggers yesterday with my meter and i was getting around 165-172 v cranking per channel . i wasnt sure if my multi meter has a dva but i hooked it up and it took the readings and didnt fry . i read that i could use it and it should work somewhere or worst case the fuse would blow so i went for it . i ordered a used cdi and put it in the number 1 cdi spot and nothing changed. i had hoped i found the issue because the cdi i removed had a bad circuit. i put the multimeter to work and checked resistance from green wire to all the others and the blue one had none on the one removed and on the new cdi and the cdi on the bracket both had similar numbers so i thought it would solve the problem when installed but it has not.

 

[The Force power]

thank you, im sorry its confusing. i had swapped the cdi boxes around to see if the issue changed and it did not i am 100 percent sure the wires are installed correctly i put them back the same way they were before the issue started, and they are matching the factory diagram but 1 ,3 has no spark at all i will go ahead and buy the better spark tester after i try the unplugging of the yellow and blue wires and rechecking as recommended

This should be your schematic, re-check your hook-up

 

[The Force power]

i checked output voltage on triggers yesterday with my meter and i was getting around 165-172 v cranking per channel . i wasnt sure if my multi meter has a dva but i hooked it up and it took the readings and didnt fry . i read that i could use it and it should work somewhere or worst case the fuse would blow so i went for it . i ordered a used cdi and put it in the number 1 cdi spot and nothing changed. i had hoped i found the issue because the cdi i removed had a bad circuit. i put the multimeter to work and checked resistance from green wire to all the others and the blue one had none on the one removed and on the new cdi and the cdi on the bracket both had similar numbers so i thought it would solve the problem when installed but it has not.

Your confusing Trigger voltage & Stator voltage;
The AC voltage output from the trigger-wires is very low (DVA-5 Volts or more)
The AC voltage output from the stator should be approximately DVA 180 volts
Remember; a DVA meter is a must to diagnose properly !!
Also; a good battery & starter

 

[o4rudeboy]

disconnecting the yellow wire to the stator on the second cdi allowed 1,2 to fire nicely. im bummed now im guessing i needed two cdis instead of one . is there a way to make the one good side of the rear cdi to work i know its capable of firing at least one coil if in the first cdi position

 

[The Force power]

disconnecting the yellow wire to the stator on the second cdi allowed 1,2 to fire nicely. im bummed now im guessing i needed two cdis instead of one . is there a way to make the one good side of the rear cdi to work i know its capable of firing at least one coil if in the first cdi position

Yes, use the lead that works and/or the one that normally would hook to Coil#4 (if applicable)

 

[o4rudeboy]

This should be your schematic, re-check your hook-up

thank you that is exactly what i have right now . my cdi electronics stator instruction says in a little box on top of the diagram that the new stator design allows for "all blue and yellow wires to be hooked up together" i didn't install that way because i wasnt sure, should i try it that way ?