ProV150 No start

[Laser87]

I have a 1988 ProV 150 G, code 6J9 L, I was driving the boat at WOT and the engine just died, like someone turned off the key. Tried restarting, engine just spins over, no attempt to start. Using my Seloc Yamaha Outboard manual I started checking things. I have 500,000 ohms on the wihite wire at the control box form the kill switch. I pulled the control box, the unit in the CDI enclosure, my resistance readings are nowhere close to those published in the Seloc manual.

From reading other threads on the Yamaha engines I assume the charging coil powers the CDI and the pulser coils control timing and firing of the ignition coils through the CDI.

I will perform the resistance checks on the pulser coils and charging coil and add that information later on.

I used a High energy spark plug tester, the spark plug has a clip so it can be clipped to a ground and a spark plug wire connected to it. There was no spark, but the CDI may not generate the same high voltage field as my GM van does.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

Pick up a peak reading voltmeter made to read the voltages on these ignition systems and the check the input and out puts of the CDI. Or you can use a DVA adapter and a regular voltmeter

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

Thanks for the help. I have looked into voltage divider network. I will purchase the resistors and build one then I should be able to use my Digital VOM to see if there is a high voltage output from the ignition coils. I will check the pulser coil outputs too. I assume the charge coils will produce a low voltage AC then be rectified to DC before going to the CDI unit.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

you assume all wrong.
buy a tuneup spec guide
lit-18559-84-05
it has everything in it you need to test your ign system from charge coil and pulser coil outputs to CDI outputs but its all in PEAK voltage DC.
average or RMS voltage is irrelavent.
a simple spark test will tell yo if you have high voltage from the ign coil secondarys.

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

Rodbolt, Thanks for the advice, I just ordered the tuneup spec guide and I should have it in a few days. In the mean time I will use the Seloc information to check a few components.

The control box below the CDI in the same enclosure; is that a rev limiter? The kill switch and ignition stop circuit are wired to it to shut the engine down. The thermo switches are also wired to it, do they also stop the engine?

Can the control box be removed and the engine run without it? The resistive readings are no where close to the readings in the Seloc manual.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

now do you have a peak reading voltmeter or a digital meter with a peak reading adapter?
a standard digital voltmeter normally wont read PEAK.
it may hold max and min but NOT peak.

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

I have a fluke 87 with min -max hold. I do not have a peak reading meter. I did see the adapter listed on E-bay.

How does it work?

The ignition pulses will be very short duration. I do have an old CRT Tectronics Oscilloscope that I could probably drag outside to check the pulser coil outputs. I do not have a high voltage probe for the scope so I would only be able to look at the primary voltage to the coils.

I did purchase a spark tester at my local NAPA store that will give a visual indication if there is a spark on one plug.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

do a forum search on home made spark tester.
yes your occiliscope will will most likly work, you may need an attenuator to check the 100+ volts from the charge coil.
odds of all three pulsers failing at once are rather high.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

I have a fluke 87 with min -max hold. I do not have a peak reading meter. I did see the adapter listed on E-bay.

How does it work?

The ignition pulses will be very short duration. I do have an old CRT Tectronics Oscilloscope that I could probably drag outside to check the pulser coil outputs. I do not have a high voltage probe for the scope so I would only be able to look at the primary voltage to the coils.

http://forums.iboats.com/showpost.php?p=2303865&postcount=47
This DVA adapter worked when I built it. not much to them.
I even borrowed one and compared the two and readings were real close.

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

99yam40, thanks for the information. I downloaded the drawing and will build a unit.

I did a lot of testing today, ran the battery down, swapped the battery and did some more testing. Had spark on all six cylinders.

Tried starting engine. It stalled a few times and is running fine. Don't know what happened. Winter is coming to upstate New york, so the boat needs to get winterized.

My wife says, no long rides next season until I figure out what happened.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

Kill switch, key switch, or wiring maybe

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

I checked the wiring at the engine from the kill switch. With a Fluke DVM I had 0.5 meg ohms on the white wire to ground. Pulled the kill switch lanyard and the reading when down to 1 to 2 ohms.

I will look at the wiring from the key switch, according to the wiring schematic in the Seloc manual the key switch off position parallels the kill switch.

Saturday, October 2nd. While running the engine with the ears on and water just leaking out around the ears the engine overheated, the alarm sounded. Engine was running about 15 minutes with some blips of the throttle. Water was spraying out the telltale hole in the case.

I pulled the thermostats, one was open and one looked OK. With the T'stats removed and covers off I started the engine and expected water to come flowing out, now water came out.

Pulled the lower unit, looked the water pump over, it looks OK. It was new 2 seasons ago. Reinstalled lower unit.

Removed the water pressure bypass assembly, spring looks good, plastic valve looked good, seat was fairly clean.

Started engine and with hose pressure higher, water spraying out all around the lower unit, water finally came out the T'stat openings.

Is the impeller not working properly or do I have a blockage? I have always turned to water on so the water was leaking out the ear muffs slightly and never had a problem before. But I also never ran the engine on the muffs for more than a few minutes before.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

I would put in a pump kit just to see, not much money and easy to do.

I do not know what you mean by"I pulled the thermostats, one was open and one looked OK".
I would test them in a pot of water as you heat it to see what temp they open and how far.

I had a Johnson once that had a strange running problem that turned out to be a chaffed kill wire that would short to ground when the spot got wet from rain or trapped water under the cowling

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

One thermostat looks normal, the moving portion is seated in the metal ring at the end opposite the wax pellet of what ever the medium is that allows expansion and contraction of the center section.

The other thermostat is extended like it is fully opened and there is a small rod in the center that looks like it is supposed to slide down into the sleeve.

I will replace both t'stats adn replace the impeller

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

good maint, has nothing to do with your problem.
but while your under the hood, turn the key on,engine OFF. dissconnect the pink temp switch wire,either side, and ground the engine harness side. listen for the audible alarm.
or pull the kill switch, crank the motor, listen for the audible.
both should trigger it.
cant tell you how many engines I have "fixed" on the phone with the guy 15 miles from me dead in the water just by listening.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

Rodbolt, he said the alarm came on after the motor finally started and he ran for 15 minutes on muffs, but still has no idea why it died and would not restart or have fire to plugs

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

99yam40
NO alarm condition, no matter how bad my spelling is. WILL relate to a SHUT DOWN.
on ANY Yamaha.
can relate to an alarm or power reduction but NEVER NEVER NEVER a shut down.
its not how the alarm system works

 

[Laser87]

Re: ProV150 No start

99yam40 and Rodbolt
I keep thinking about two weeks ago when the engine died on the water. The motor did not want to start at the dock. It was spinning slower than normal. After three or four tries it fired up and ran fine. I ran along at moderate speed for a while then opened it up. After it died and would not start, I recall the starter was not spinning the engine very fast.

During my trouble shooting the starter was not spinning the engine very fast. Reading one of the treads here on Iboats.com in order for the engine to start it was supposed to spin at 250 rpm or faster so the CDI could generate a powerful spark.

Afer I replaced the battery and the starter was spinning the engine faster, there was spark and the engine started.

 

[99yam40]

Re: ProV150 No start

Rodbolt, I understand about the alarm, I was just reminding you that he said his alarm did sound.
But I did not think about the kill switch sounding alarm while turning over if the wiring was grounding out. Good point

Laser87, Yes low battery will cause slow turning and low/no spark.
Do you think the battery voltage dropped low enough to cause the shutdown?
you may need to check to see if the motor is charging the battery

 

[rodbolt]

Re: ProV150 No start

CDI does NOT generate the spark voltage, thats the stators job.
on that proV once the engine is running it requires NO battery voltage to keep it that way, infact if you rope start it it doesnt require battery voltage to start.