Property question......

heyttown

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
537
On a lake in the Irish Hills of Michigan, We rented a cottage for a week.On the friday before we have to leave the next door neighbor shows up and was having a fit......The Dock which is on the property we rented is about 4' from the above mentioned property line,The owner has his boat docked on the north side of the dock,the south side of the dock is always open and is about 60' from the neighbors dock who did the complaining.....His logic is the dock is ours to use,but we can only use the next 4' in the water before it becomes his property.So needless to say he asked us to move our boat(no biggie,as we were renting,we didnt want any problems with the neighbors)....My question is, do property deeds actually state you own the water in front of your property (I say no,but Im guessing)...I can understand the concrete breakwall the owners had to install would be his, but if that boat is floating, how can it be on his property?<br /><br />While it sucked to move the boat,we had a great week at the lake,but this concerns us in renting the same cottage next season...<br /><br />Any thoughts or ideas?
 

f_inscreenname

Commander
Joined
Aug 23, 2001
Messages
2,591
Re: Property question......

Most places water is county property on in a tidal area it is up to high tide. Malibu, California residents are having a fit over the same thing. Here is the story.<br /><br />Malibu Beach Wars<br /><br />(CBS) There's a classic battle being waged between the haves and the have-nots. <br /><br />CBS News Correspondent Sandra Hughes reports that what the haves have is access to some of the most beautiful beaches in America -- and they're doing everything they can to keep the have-nots out. <br /><br />The Malibu coastline is only 13 miles along the Pacific Coast Highway but it may be the quintessential definition of California. Malibu is the place where movies stars and media moguls pay millions to settle into a little slice of heaven. <br /><br />With residents like Steven Spielberg, Pamela Anderson and Goldie Hawn, Malibu is a community of homeowners who expect privacy -- but live in mansions with front yards that open onto a public beach. <br /><br />“They don’t really like people,” says activist Steve Hoye. <br /><br />Hoye says that with houses lined up like a barrier wall, the Malibu elite try to create private beaches by making it impossible to get there -- even posting illegal signs and locking public gates. <br /><br />“There is no such thing as a private beach in the state of California,” Hoye says. <br /><br />Turf battles in Malibu over what is public and what is private have been going on for decades and this summer is no different. For years, movie mogul David Geffen blocked off the sidewalk that ran along the side of his house to “Billionaires Beach.” But in June, facing daily court fines, he finally gave up and handed over the keys to the public. <br /><br />In theory, everything on California beaches is public up to the average high-tide line. But nobody really knows where that is. And to complicate the situation, just this summer, homeowners three miles up the road at Broad Beach in Malibu hired bulldozers to build an 8-foot sand berm in their backyards. <br /><br />One woman told Hughes that she was “shocked” and “upset” when she saw the barrier. <br /><br />Homeowners drew a line in the sand when they hired those bulldozers to build the berm. At high tide everything below their backyards is underwater – it’s not very easy to put a towel down there. <br /><br />Homeowners would only respond in writing, saying they were trying to restore the beach. But that's usually done in the winter not right before summer tanning season. Even the normally laid-back surfers had had enough. <br /><br />“I'm not going anywhere,” said one disgruntled surfer. <br /><br />The homeowners who hired those bulldozers now face fines of hundreds of thousands of dollars. In the meantime, the tide is washing away their privacy berm -- and the battle over the beach is getting hot all over again.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Property question......

I hate pathetic losers that would have a fit over something like this.<br /><br />How petty can you be.<br /><br />As far your answer, I dont know.<br /><br />Ken
 

all thumbs

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jan 22, 2005
Messages
438
Re: Property question......

Not a lawyer but I remember some of this stuff from real estate. It falls under littoral or riparian rights [spelling?]old english type law.. If its a private lake he may very well own the water. But some states have written new laws called something like civil laws. these laws say all water is for everyones recreational uses who have property on it. I remember some of the states, michigan, min. ill.,few others. If its not a man made lake I believe its for all the public.Check with a local realestate at Irish Hills, bet they have knowledge on it.
 

brother chris

Commander
Joined
Jul 28, 2002
Messages
2,063
Re: Property question......

I don't think water is included in the deed for the property. At least it is not in Canada. Not sure about USA. <br />See how people wreck it for others. You had already made up your mind to go back next year, but because of this idiot, you are giving it second thoughts. <br />You should tell the owner of the property so he can go and talk to his neighbor.
 

aspeck

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2003
Messages
18,694
Re: Property question......

There was a big debate over this in central PA. A land owner tried everything he could to keep fisherman off his property and the stream that ran through it - a very prolific trout water, I might add. He was selling fishing trips on "his water" and wanted to keep "his" stretch private. The legal debate ended with the statement that since he owned both sides of the stream, he also owned the stream bottom and "outsiders" could not wade on his property. However, he could not stop someone from floating through (although they could not anchor).<br /><br />Based on that, I would say you could float your boat, just not anchor it on the south side, or touch his bottom - but then why would you want to do that? ;) But then since he does not own the whole body of water, his property would technically end where the deed says it ends, which is probably at the shore line.
 

aanda6

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 28, 2005
Messages
122
Re: Property question......

In Australia the forst five metres of riverbank is crown land. So as long as you walk the river landowners can't sto you fishing even though they try. Where I go the bloke has built a 7ft fence around his property wiyh signs saying no fishing. Not easy climbing 7ft fence with rods and tackle box.LOL
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,708
Re: Property question......

Here in Wisconsin, the state owns all public waters, and private property ends at the water, (or xx feet from the water if that is what the deed/survey state.<br /><br />We also have a law that says the state owns the 3 feet of land adjacent to the water, so technically you can walk the shoreline anywhere in Wisconsin. But we are all nice about it and stay out of others' yards. :) <br /><br />Docks, although private property, are placed on/in the public waterway, so that opens up another can of worms.<br /><br />Contact the county assessor or state land use office to see what the laws are in MI. Or just let the guy complain, let him call the water patrol, DNR, or sherriff. Who cares what he complains about.<br /><br />Better yet, anchor your boat out in the water, in front of his house. :)
 

roscoe

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Oct 30, 2002
Messages
21,708
Re: Property question......

Here in Wisconsin, the state owns all public waters, and private property ends at the water, (or xx feet from the water if that is what the deed/survey state.<br /><br />We also have a law that says the state owns the 3 feet of land adjacent to the water, so technically you can walk the shoreline anywhere in Wisconsin. But we are all nice about it and stay out of others' yards. :) <br /><br />Docks, although private property, are placed on/in the public waterway, so that opens up another can of worms.<br /><br />Contact the county assessor or state land use office to see what the laws are in MI. Or just let the guy complain, let him call the water patrol, DNR, or sherriff. Who cares what he complains about.<br /><br />Better yet, anchor your boat out in the water, in front of his house. :)
 

heyttown

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
537
Re: Property question......

Its sucks, as we have rented the place for 3 years now, and it suits us well(normally 8-10 people there all week)...This is the first time this neighbor has shown up in those 3 years which is great,but I would hate for him to show up and just happen to stay all week long like we do,that would ruin the week.Thats the only reason why we are thinking about renting another place next year.....Ive spoken with every neighbor in that little neighborhood, and everyone says that the guy is strange,and has been a A%@#!hole to everyone,so it isnt just us.<br /><br />Thanks for the replies.
 

fireman57

Captain
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Messages
3,811
Re: Property question......

Talk to the people that you are renting from and see what they do about jerkhead. I personally would ignore him and hope he goes away. If he doesn't the people you are renting from can give you some advice.
 

tomatolord

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Oct 1, 2004
Messages
548
Re: Property question......

yes every state is different <br /><br />However in general he is wrong you could anchor your boat right off his property and he could do nothing about it.<br /><br />Most if not all property lines DO NOT extend into the water - maybe a foot becuase of erosion, <br /><br /><br />However - you are renters - and he probably gets somer real a$$hole renters as well - he probably figures he is never going to see you again so why not just be a jerk?<br /><br />Is there any reason to dock it on that side?<br /><br />My dad is starting to get a litte crazy like that as well...he has an acre of waterfront and he built his dock 4 feet from the property line on the right side - the other property owner only has a 10foot area to put his dock - dad is always complaining about the other guy....
 

KeltonKrew

Lieutenant
Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
1,325
Re: Property question......

In texas the property lines are normally a couple of feet from the actual water line. I know my property stops about 3 feet from the water. I have to get a permit from the Trinity River Authority to build a dock. anyone can anchor their boat right in front of my place and I can't do a thing about it. They can't tie off to your dock, but they can anchor inches from it.<br /><br />Check your state regs....I'm sure the state owns the water which means it belongs to the people, and jerk head can't do a thing, even if your boat would be in the water on "his" side of his imaginary line.
 

Limited-Time

Vice Admiral
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
5,820
Re: Property question......

In this part of SC on Non Core of Engineers lakes, the property lines are projected out into the lake for the sole purpose of establishing dock placement. the dock may be placed on the line but no part may extend over the projected property line. As far as land rights, lots deeded before a given date (I am not sure of the date). Prop owners own the land to the full pond line. Meaning they own to the waters edge when the lake is full. The newer deeds state ownership to a line five feet above full pond. Leaving an area of land between their prop. line and the lake.
 

eeboater

Commander
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
2,644
Re: Property question......

Originally posted by KenImpZoom:<br /> I hate pathetic losers that would have a fit over something like this.<br /><br />How petty can you be.<br /><br />As far your answer, I dont know.<br /><br />Ken
I gotta agree with that one... It seems like a very Petty complaint. If the guy had rights to the dock, so be it. But you gotta be a real a** to be a a** to someone who 1. didn't know he was in the "wrong" and B. was just visiting the area.<br /><br />If it was my dock, and it was being used with respect and not affecting my vessel, I say let em use it.<br /><br />Who knows.<br /><br />Sean
 

heyttown

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
537
Re: Property question......

Thats the thing it wasnt his dock,he has his own dock on his own property.....We have a call into the owners of the rental property,we will see what happens.<br /><br />As far as the question of putting the boat on the other side....The water is very shallow 1' at best.The rental home owner has his own boat and lift sitting on the north side of the dock,we used to open side....<br /><br />I appreciate the opinions posted.
 

ErikDC

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
306
Re: Property question......

heyttown, don't know about MI but in Ohio, property rights end at the high waterline but legislation is being considered to extend it to the low waterline so technically, under the proposed legislation, one would "own" the water down to the low line. I guess that makes sense and if that's the case in MI, so be it. Either way, the neighbor you're talking about is an A-hole for being picky to the extreme and I would suggest "fertilizing" his lawn with salt. Just an idea. :D :rolleyes:
 

heyttown

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 3, 2003
Messages
537
Re: Property question......

Well just a follow up.........The owner of the rented cottage and the putz ****head neighbor,have lived next to each other for 15 yrs......3 of those years were spent in court as he was fighting that the end of the rented cottage dock eventually crossed his property line.If you can picture the deck goes straight out on the lake,but the property line is actually on an angle(pie shaped property) so if you were to draw imaginary lines from his fence line out 40'in the water the dock would be on his side....Go figure a$$hole like this would tie up court systems for 3 yrs over that....Owner says the ****head lost that battle,but the war still is ongoing and apologized for his actions.<br /><br /><br />The reality is he has money,and just doesnt care about anybody but himself.....<br /><br />Oh well,now is the time to look for more cottages to rent.<br /><br />Thanks everyone.
 

KRS

Banned
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
2,383
Re: Property question......

I had some jerk getting upset because I told him to stop tying off to my dock, he muttered something about renting the house and he didn't know, I told him to shuttup....... OOPS!<br /><br /> :eek: :rolleyes: :eek: :D :D :D
 
Top