Problems at Launch?

[BigDiesel]

I'm hoping to tap into the great expanse of expertise here in the group.<br /><br />I have a mid-size pickup with a V8 and a 5-speed manual gearbox and 4x4 drive. I took the truck to a weight station and with a full tank of gas, the truck weighs 4400 lbs. With me, the girlfriend, and some weekend gear, I'm thinking that the loaded truck will weigh in around 5000 lbs. I'll verify this next spring.<br /><br />I have a 23 ft cruiser that weighs 3400 lbs according to the owner's manual. I add 70 gallons of fuel (455 lbs), 40 gallons of fresh water (333 lbs), and a dual axle trailer (400 lbs???) and I am looking at a theoretical weight of 4600 lbs. The boat is in winter storage now or else I would take it to the weight station and get an actual weight.<br /><br />Where I live, we only have reservoirs and the boat launch ramps are all steep ... steep and long. With my loaded truck only being 400 lbs heavier that the boat and trailer, I wonder if I will have any problems slipping down the ramp when I go to back the boat down? That is, how likely is it that the boat will overwhelm my pickups' brakes and pull me down the launch ramp?<br /><br />I am not at all concerned about pulling the boat out of the water, in 4x4 High, the truck pulls like you would not believe without spinning a tire. If there were any trouble, I can electronically go to 4x4 low.<br /><br />I ask for your input because if it is likely that the boat will pull me down the launch ramp, next spring I can have the trailer's surge brakes upgraded to electronic brakes.<br /><br />Thanks for all input!

 

[bubbakat]

Re: Problems at Launch?

If you have trailer brakes it can not pull you down the ramp. When you upgrade to electronics in brakes it should come with an adjustment on it so you can set the sensitivity up so the trailer brakes catch just a little ahead of the truck brakes

 

[aspeck]

Re: Problems at Launch?

If you have enough power to pull it up, you should have enough power to ease it down. Good gripping tires and brakes on your tow vehicle are important, and don't try to back down at mach 1, and you should be fine. Remember, the water will help hold the boat back at the end also. Good luck and enjoy the water!<br /><br />If unsure, trailer brakes will help.

 

[boater4life]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Electric over Hydraulic brakes would be the best answer. Regular electric brakes have a tendencey to rust and stick.

 

[burp]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Hydro, Take it slow the first few times down the ramp and avoid ramps that are slick or covered with moss. I suspect you are a little lite on your theoretical trailer/boat weight. My 20' bowrider, with 20 gallons of gas on a single axle trailer weighed in at 4660 lbs. The manufacturers listed weight for the boat was 3100 lbs.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Problems at Launch?

If you're That Worried, Launch in 4X4Low.....<br />(If it starts to get away from you, Just turn Off the Key... The Truck will Stop right There!!)<br />I Really Don't see Any Problems.....<br />Electric Brakes on Boat Trailers $uck !!!!!!<br />Hydros are the Only way to go.....<br />Either Surge, or Ele. over Hyds.......

 

[BigDiesel]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the input. I do have a few questions however:<br /><br />bubba: The boat trailer has surge brakes, which will disengage when the trailer pulls on the truck as going down the ramp. Right?<br /><br />peck: I am counting on the truck tires and brakes holding. The tires are 1 yr old off-road and the pads were replaced a month ago. Thought about upgrading the rotors to slotted and using ceramic pads, but figured OEM should get the job done on the ramp since I have no problem whatsoever in other driving conditions.<br /><br />boater: I do not know what these electric over hydraulic are, are they something that you install over your normal surge brakes. The electric brakes that I am looking at completely replace my surge brakes, have powdercoated backplates, and sealed electrical units ... they are $100 per brake with a lifetime warranty.<br /><br />burb: I am surprised that your boat is so heavy. I'll take mine to the weight station as soon as I can retrieve it from winter storage.<br /><br />bondo, I thought about using 4x4 low to back down. However, it is such a low gear ratio, the engine really whines, and the launch ramp is a good 100 ft to get to the water. I'll use 4x4 low as my emergency plan. Now I'll try to find out what this electric over surge brakes is.<br /><br />Thanks again everyone!

 

[bubbakat]

Re: Problems at Launch?

I would change the surge brakes because they are useless backing down a ramp<br /> replace them with hydro or elect I know some don't like hydro over elect. but use them on my goose neck and my cattle trailer and good luck so far

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Hello<br /> wow what a tough question. after much pondering and several refreshing beverages I think I found a solution. when you get to the ramp hop out and tell the girlfriend to back it down and ill guide you just stop when I say whoa. if it stops no worries and if it does not you are off the hook . its a win win thing <br /> just dont let the girlfriend in on the test<br />.my uncles electric brakes on his travel trailer have a small black box just below the streeing wheel that has a knop that moves with brake pedal pressue and some leds that show how much brake force is being applied. it has the advantage of you can reach down and manually toggle the trailer brakes. <br />good luck and keep posting

 

[roscoe]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Your weak link may be your brakes.<br /><br />Or it may be your manual transmission/clutch.<br /><br />I would use 4x4 LOW the first few times. Allow your clutch to hook up.

 

[BrianFD]

Re: Problems at Launch?

No worries, HydroSwift!<br />Just use common sense speed backing down and your truck will do just fine. Worst-case, if you find yourself careening out of control down the ramp, you can always spin your steering wheel hard and jackknife... that's one sure way to slow down/stop (until you break your trailer tongue off, hehehe)<br />We all suffer anxiety at launch/retrieve time (at least a little), but usually our fears are unfounded. Relax & have a great time boating!!

 

[Lark40]

Re: Problems at Launch?

The electric-over-hydraulic brake setup is shown here:<br /><br /> http://www.carlislebrake.com/hydrastarxl.pdf <br /><br />This is the Cadillac of trailer brake systems - expensive but simply the best.

 

[BigDiesel]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Okay, you guys have given me a lot to think about. I did look at the electric over hydraulic and they are rather pricey, $700 without the controller. The advantage is that I could switch to disc brakes.<br /><br />After scouring the internet for several hours, it seems that most non-boaters like electric brakes. The top of the line electric brake controllers have accelerometers that should engage the brakes faster and most consistently than surge brakes PLUS you can control the amount of drag on the brakes via the dashboard controller (perfect for backing down the ramp). From what I have read, boaters dislike electric brakes because of their susceptibility to rusting and the way that they can lose braking when grease from the wheel bearing gets inside of the drum area. If there is any other complaint, I have not yet discovered it. The set of brakes that I am looking at are supposed to fix those problems; they are rated for saltwater use ... no corrosion should happen. The other pro for this option is that it seems that my truck was wired from the factory to use electric brakes ... according to the salesman there is already an adapter under my dash for the controller and the hitch plug has the right connector leads.<br /><br />There are many little things that I need to do to the boat (as if this is something new?) and I would rather dedicate my money to these fixes. The electric brakes will run me roughly $350 so I'll try them. I'll let you know of my experience next spring.<br /><br />Thanks again.

 

[SingleShot]

Re: Problems at Launch?

I have one thought, If you have traction enough to pull your boat out "the frictional coefficient between tire surface area and earth" then I would expect you shouldn't have a problem backing it down. <br /><br />If you have poor traction narrower tires will help in this matter as the weight of the vehicle would remain the same therby increasing the weight to surface area of the tire. This can be misleading if your on a soft surface like sand or mud where you want to float on top. You could also put weight in your bed to increase traction if needed.<br /><br />The trailer brakes will be an advantage once the trailer is moveing and momentum is built up. If you have problems stopping with the trailer brakes, you may have problems pulling it back out. In short I would be more conserned about pulling it back out then backing it in.<br /><br />SingleShot

 

[POINTER94]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Just some thoughts:<br /><br />1. A tandum trailer is much heavier than 400lbs. It would be my guess that your rig will be closer to 5800lbs. <br /><br />2. Check your trucks gvcw to see if you are exceeding the tow rating of your vehicle.<br /><br />3. 4wd low makes your engine rev too much? Don't worry about it, check the rpm on your boat at cruising speed, and you run that for how long?<br /><br />4 Use a weight distribution hitch to get as equal a load distribution over all four tires as you can get. Look at air shocks, or air bags for the rear suspension.<br /><br />5. If you are really concerned try lowering the air pressure in your tires to increase the surface area contacing the road.<br /><br />6. Run a line from the emergency trailer brake engagement wire/switch into the truck and use it as an emergency brake if the situation dictates.<br /><br />7. Electric over hydraulic would be my set up of choice.<br /><br />PPPPPPP = Prior Proper Planning Prevents Pi** Poor Performance.<br /><br />Good Luck!

 

[Uncle Dave]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Hydro:<br />Go find the meanest ramp in your area and measure the angle. Then go find someones driveway or a section of road that is at least that steep. Try out you rig there. If it holds, then pour some water on the asphalt and try again. No problem with a lake at the bottom, just traffic.<br />Good luck,<br />Fitz.

 

[MrBill]

Re: Problems at Launch?

I think all the issues were mentioned, but I agree with Roscoe, stopping (brakes) is always the most important issue, and usually overlooked. Most people are concerned with pulling capacity and over heating, when brakes and stopping are the real issue.<br /><br />Launch and pull in 4X Low at the ramp...<br />One other note...trailers your size are probably over 1000 lbs.<br />And Mr. Fitz...forgot to add algae.

 

[Maximerc]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Ohhhh good grief. If you are driving at 55 mph and slam on the brakes as hard as you can what happens ..the tires slide not the brakes. yea they will give up to heat after a while but thats not much of a concern.<br />That being said I wonder how ABS would react ? going backwards? How often do you tow it . can you find a way to fill the boat with water and fuel after its in the water? I know having that much Liquid sloshing around could be a problem , it is in my camper. I do think you are a bit light on the trailer weight too.

 

[MrBill]

Re: Problems at Launch?

ABS is not a problem, most vehicles today have them, no issue on my 150 SuperCrew. Stopping distance is the issue, but I still hope it's never necessary to lock the brakes at 55 or any speed.

 

[BigDiesel]

Re: Problems at Launch?

Thanks for all of the replies guys, I do appreciate your input. Hopefully I can reply without offending anyone.<br /><br />Single: I agree with you in principle. I just want the comfort of knowing that I can apply a brake on the boat trailer if needed.<br /><br />Pointer: You are correct, I grossly underestimated the weight of the trailer. I called Zieman and got the correct weight. Yes, I have been checking the GVCW all along, even at 6000, I have another 500 lbs to go. You hit on one of the key differences between marine i/o and automotive engines. Marine engines are designed to run at WOT throttle 80% of their lifespan while automotive engines are expected to be at WOT 20% of their lifespan. I was told by several trailer and internet places to NOT use a WD hitch with a boat trailer because it interferes with the surge brake actuation. I have resolved the braking issue, please see "Surge AND Electric post".<br /><br />Fitz: That is exactly what I have wanted to do since day one. However, I cannot find anything in town as steep as the boat ramps. This spring I'll take photos so that people can appreciate the steepness of our local boat ramps.<br /><br />Bill: I agree with you soooooo much. There is a big discussion in another post about me adding electric brakes to my rear axles while keeping the surge brakes on the front axle (tandem axle boat trailer). To me, you simply cannot go wrong by increasing your braking capacity ... especially if you can do it for a moderate price.<br /><br />Maxi: I understand that the tires may slide during braking, depending on the ramp surface. However, I believe that with 85% of the boat's and trailer's weight on the four wheels of the trailer, braking action on those four wheels should stop the trailer. Plus, you have the tow vehicle braking.<br /><br />As mentioned in another post, I have resolved this concern by having electric brakes installed in addition to my surge brakes. The idea is that whenever I feel the need for additional braking, I simply turn the controller knob mounted on my truck's dash and the electric brakes will engage.