Power Trim issue

[randydb]

Hi, first post here.

I have a 2004 Optimax 150 with power trim. I replaced the power trim motor. Two hex bolts, fist sized motor right side of power trim ram. I made sure the hydraulic fluid was full. Took the fill plug off the cylinder to the left and fluid is at the top.

The problem. Motor goes up and down fine during the main part of the motion where it moves faster. And as it goes down, it moves well through the last part where it slows down when it gets to those two sort of ram things. BUT when I move it up it sort of loses thrust as it transitions from the slow part to the fast part (I'm sorry for my lack of technical lingo). Hydraulics are making their sounds, but the motor stops lifting. Hydraulics seem to even be whining faster(increase rpm?) but no movement. If I stop and go back and forth a few times it will eventually catch and then run the motor up the rest of the way fine.

What is going on? Is there supposed to be fluid added on the side that the lift motor is on too?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Chris1956]

Trim fluid goes into the reservoir only. Fill the reservoir, with the trim all the way up and the boat level, until it overflows. Now run the trim down all the way, and then up all the way and let her sit a few minutes for the bubbles to gather at the top of the reservoir. Refill and repeat a few times.

Make sure the tilt tube is greased and nothing is binding.

 

[randydb]

I had the boat more or less level...maybe tilting a bit to port, and if anything towards the bow. I pulled the reservoir plug and red oil was running out. Ran it up and it had the problem I described....gets "stuck" in the transition part from slow to fast. Toggled back and forth about 5 times and it finally caught and went up all the way.
When I put it all the way down and looked in the reservoir it was still full. Same problem next time up. I was afraid to put it down again and not get it raised.

I will have to take a look and make sure nothing is binding. When you say "tilt tube" are you talking about greasing the hydraulic ram that raises the motor?

 

[Chris1956]

When I say tilt tube, I refer to the threaded pipe that the transom clamp that the steering cable goes thru. There are grease fittings that need some grease, for tilt to move freely.

 

[randydb]

So, I greased everything up, but the problem still occurs. Fine running down, right through the slower part at the bottom. But going up as it comes to the end of the slow part the motor stops raising. Toggle back and forth 3-7 times and it finally goes up. I've attached a video.

 

[Chris1956]

Sounds like the trim rods have air in them. I am not sure why that would happen, when the tilt cylinder seems full of oil.

The tilt cylinder gets it's oil via passages drilled in the stainless steel pin on the very bottom of the PT unit that the trim cylinder pivots on, So one would think the trim cylinders would fill first.

All I can suggest is that you try to bleed the PTT unit. In your case, I would trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and then refill it. Trim it down and leave it 10 minutes. Now trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and refill it. You are trying to get the air in the trim fluid in the trim cylinders to bubble up to the top of the reservoir. You are using a Dextron ATF fluid?

Other than than, maybe some of the internal passages that feed to tilt cylinders are clogged?

You can buy a rebuild/seal kit for those units. You need a spanner to remove the trim and tilt cylinder caps.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

 

[randydb]

Sounds like the trim rods have air in them. I am not sure why that would happen, when the tilt cylinder seems full of oil.

The tilt cylinder gets it's oil via passages drilled in the stainless steel pin on the very bottom of the PT unit that the trim cylinder pivots on, So one would think the trim cylinders would fill first.

All I can suggest is that you try to bleed the PTT unit. In your case, I would trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and then refill it. Trim it down and leave it 10 minutes. Now trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and refill it. You are trying to get the air in the trim fluid in the trim cylinders to bubble up to the top of the reservoir. You are using a Dextron ATF fluid?

Other than than, maybe some of the internal passages that feed to tilt cylinders are clogged?

You can buy a rebuild/seal kit for those units. You need a spanner to remove the trim and tilt cylinder caps.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

Bump for any more suggestions?

 

[markhodges78]

loosen the bypass on the right hand side enough to push motor all way up then tighten it back up add fluid then lower engine with the pump and repeat until you can get the trim to raise the motor with out issue's

 

[Dukedog]

one thing.. do not "remove fill plug" in any position but all tha way UP (tilt rod fully extended)....... try runnin' it up and down several times after checkin/adding fluid before checkin' level again.............. sounds like it may have a little air show up (if ya lucky) when it makes transition from trim (small rods) to tilt (big one in tha middle)

 

[randydb]

Sounds like the trim rods have air in them. I am not sure why that would happen, when the tilt cylinder seems full of oil.

The tilt cylinder gets it's oil via passages drilled in the stainless steel pin on the very bottom of the PT unit that the trim cylinder pivots on, So one would think the trim cylinders would fill first.

All I can suggest is that you try to bleed the PTT unit. In your case, I would trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and then refill it. Trim it down and leave it 10 minutes. Now trim it up and leave it 10 minutes and refill it. You are trying to get the air in the trim fluid in the trim cylinders to bubble up to the top of the reservoir. You are using a Dextron ATF fluid?

Other than than, maybe some of the internal passages that feed to tilt cylinders are clogged?

You can buy a rebuild/seal kit for those units. You need a spanner to remove the trim and tilt cylinder caps.

Maybe someone else has a better idea.

I am away at the moment so I will have to try this when I get home. I had the motor up and down numerous times. Sticking in the transition spot going up each time. like the video.
I opened the fill plug at least 4 times and each time it seemed that the reservior was overfull....fluid was coming out. BUT I never really checked to see if I had the motor FULLY up. I could have had it 3/4 up.
I will try getting the motor fully up
I looked at a couple videos on rebuilding/replacing the seals. It looks pretty easy and something I can do.
Chris, when I am replacing the seals will I be able to see the passages that feed fluid to the tilt cylinder? Clean them out if they are partially blocked?

These seal kits range from $50-$170. $170 ones are from Canada and arrive in 2 days.....$50 are in America and arrive in 2 weeks. Dang.

 

[randydb]

So will this power trim unit work on my 2004 optimax 150? I have a motor I would take off my old trim unit. It is a 2 wire motor.
How do I tell if this one will work?

Mercury Force Outboard 140 HP Power Trim Unit for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for Mercury Force Outboard 140 HP Power Trim Unit. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.ca

 

[randydb]

Or will this one fit?

Mercury Force Outboard 115 HP Power Trim and Tilt Assembly Unit for sale | eBay

Find great deals on eBay for Mercury Force Outboard 115 HP Power Trim and Tilt Assembly Unit. Shop with confidence.

www.ebay.ca

 

[Chris1956]

Those PTT units look like the same style. I do not know if they will fit.

I think I would try to drain and refill your PTT before I bought a used one, condition unknown. Maybe your fluid is bad or the wrong stuff?

Take your unit off and dump out the fluid, pull the lower stainless steel rod and make sure all the fluid is out of it. Now refill and see if it works better.

 

[markhodges78]

I am away at the moment so I will have to try this when I get home. I had the motor up and down numerous times. Sticking in the transition spot going up each time. like the video.
I opened the fill plug at least 4 times and each time it seemed that the reservior was overfull....fluid was coming out. BUT I never really checked to see if I had the motor FULLY up. I could have had it 3/4 up.
I will try getting the motor fully up
I looked at a couple videos on rebuilding/replacing the seals. It looks pretty easy and something I can do.
Chris, when I am replacing the seals will I be able to see the passages that feed fluid to the tilt cylinder? Clean them out if they are partially blocked?

These seal kits range from $50-$170. $170 ones are from Canada and arrive in 2 days.....$50 are in America and arrive in 2 weeks. Dang.

I just went through an issue with my trim after replacing the pump motor and I rebuilt my system and I can assure you that you will not fine a complete kit for $50.00 ... see my thread https://forums.iboats.com/threads/trim-o-rings.741946/
my issue ended up being the new pump that came with the motor wasn't doing what it was supposed to ... see that thread here https://forums.iboats.com/threads/200-hp-trim-problems.741799/

 

[randydb]

I just went through an issue with my trim after replacing the pump motor and I rebuilt my system and I can assure you that you will not fine a complete kit for $50.00 ... see my thread https://forums.iboats.com/threads/trim-o-rings.741946/
my issue ended up being the new pump that came with the motor wasn't doing what it was supposed to ... see that thread here https://forums.iboats.com/threads/200-hp-trim-problems.741799/

The ebay seller says the trim assembly fits...will refund and pay return shipping if it doesn't. Says he deals with Mercury stuff all the time. He also says he tested the unit before listing it and it worked fine.

What was the motor supposed to be doing that it wasn't able to do on your new unit? I replaced the motor on my old unit and plan to use it on the one that is coming.

 

[markhodges78]

The ebay seller says the trim assembly fits...will refund and pay return shipping if it doesn't. Says he deals with Mercury stuff all the time. He also says he tested the unit before listing it and it worked fine.

What was the motor supposed to be doing that it wasn't able to do on your new unit? I replaced the motor on my old unit and plan to use it on the one that is coming.

I was referring to the $50 its like $109 and that only does them pump and trim rams not the main cylinder...

Mine would do everything it was supposed to do except when it hit the 2 trim rams it would stop like it was hitting A brick wall instead of going completely down

 

[randydb]

I was referring to the $50 its like $109 and that only does them pump and trim rams not the main cylinder...

Mine would do everything it was supposed to do except when it hit the 2 trim rams it would stop like it was hitting A brick wall instead of going completely down

 

[randydb]

I guess my question is how did you solve the issue of it acting like it hit a brick wall when it got to the trim rams? Did you have to replace the motor again?

 

[markhodges78]

I guess my question is how did you solve the issue of it acting like it hit a brick wall when it got to the trim rams? Did you have to replace the motor again?

yes my motor and pump are a set so the company sent me new motor and pump

I still believe your system is low with air in it

 

[Zberry1985]

I don't think your unit is the same as mine but I didn't notice the fill port was on the opposite side of the trim motor. there is a plug on mine where the motor connects to the pump so I assumed that was the fill port, it's not and i still don't know what it's for. every time I opened that plug oil came out.

just thinking you might want to double check which plugs you're using to fill.