Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

rolmops

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Feb 24, 2002
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President Bush removed the Davis-Bacon wage protections for construction workers on gulf coast rebuilding projects.Those protections are supposed to ensure that these workers earn a prevailing wage.Not a union wage,not a high wage.The prevailing wage for construction specialists down there is about $9.50 an hour(less than $20.000 a year).<br />I am sure that this is neccesary in order to protect the profits of companies like Halliburton and in order to save the tax cuts for millionaires.<br />In my opinion it stinks.
 

CalicoKid

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May 27, 2002
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1,599
Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Yeah, stinks. I don't understand how this could be good for anyone but the insurance and construction companies.
 

wilkin250r

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Feb 9, 2003
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570
Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

I would like to hear the opposing viewpoint. Why were the wage protections lifted, what are the reason, purpose, and/or logic behind it?
 

alden135

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 1, 2004
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1,770
Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

No one says you have to take the job. If enough depend a higher wage than the market will see to it that happens. With all the govt. freebies coming available, I doubt any will be forced to take a crap wage.<br /><br />As an owner of a construction outfit, I can say with confidence that without labor, the companies are screwed.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

wow Alden just made unions obsolete :) <br /> thank you.<br /> now the cost of my goods will drop.<br /> good thing all the major construction companies,haliburton,brown and root,shumberjer and so many others will drop there project costs to reflect the lower wages they will pay the poorly trained workers during the rebuild.
 

Holdimhook

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Jun 26, 2005
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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: Ditto what Rolmops and Calico said! Stinks!
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Davis Bacon was a law written to KEEP BLACKS from talking the jobs of White people in public works - defend it if you will.<br /><br />The market determines wages. That's the way our economic system works.<br /><br />Democrats have used in in places like MA as a welfare program for their Union base - that's why you wind up with a piece of crap known at the Big Dig that cost 16 BILLION and has more leaks than a spaghetti strainer and at risk of collapsing killing thousand if we don't pump a few more BILLION into to it to FIX IT
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Alden, I am moving up to NH with you! The big yellow Formula would love a home on Winny... Live free or die!
 

Boomyal

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Originally posted by Ralph:<br /> Alden, I am moving up to NH with you! The big yellow Formula would love a home on Winny... Live free or die!
Aaah! Ralph is finally coming to his senses. He has sublimated the circumstances of his surroundings as long as he could. :D ;) :p
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Just to be clear:<br /><br />
The Davis-Bacon Act, which requires that federal construction contractors pay their workers "prevailing wages," was passed by Congress in 1931 with the intent of favoring white workers who belonged to white-only unions over non-unionized black workers. The act continues to have discriminatory effects today by favoring disproportionately white, skilled and unionized construction workers over disproportionately black, unskilled and non-unionized construction workers. Because Davis-Bacon was passed with discriminatory intent and continues to have discriminatory effects, its enforcement violates the Constitution's guarantee of equal protection of the law. President-elect Clinton and Labor Secretary-designate Reich should therefore exercise their power of "executive review" and refuse to enforce Davis-Bacon....<br /><br />Passed at the beginning of the Depression at the instigation of the labor union movement, Davis-Bacon was designed explicitly to keep black construction workers from working on Depression-era public works projects. The act continues today to restrict the opportunities of black workers on federal and federally subsidized projects by favoring disproportionately white, unionized and skilled workers over disproportionately black, non-unionized and unskilled workers. Since President-elect Clinton has promised to significantly increase federal spending on America's infrastructure, it is a particularly appropriate time to challenge the act. If the Clinton administration continues to enforce the act, it will make a mockery of the president-elect's promise to expand job opportunities for the disadvantaged--to say nothing of his promise to bring economic efficiencies to government.<br /><br /><br />
http://www.cato.org/pubs/briefs/bp-017.html
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

And to be super clear what the lawmakers and good union leaders agenda was, I offer this:<br /><br />
<br />There's a little known law called the Davis-Bacon Act of 1931. It remains on the books today. Before saying what the law is and its effects, let me run by you some of the language used, in the early 1930s, to push the law through Congress. <br /><br />Rep. John Cochran of Missouri said he had "received numerous complaints in recent months about Southern contractors employing low-paid colored mechanics getting work and bringing the employees from the South." <br /><br />Alabama Rep. Clayton Allgood complained: "Reference has been made to a contractor from Alabama who went to New York with bootleg labor. This is a fact. That contractor has cheap colored labor that he transports, and he puts them in cabins, and it is labor of that sort that is in competition with white labor throughout the country." <br /><br />Rep. William Upshaw complained of the "superabundance or large aggregation of negro labor," which is a real problem "you are confronted with in any community." <br /><br />New York's Sen. Robert Bacon replied, "I just mentioned the fact because that was the fact in this particular case, but the same would be true if you should bring in a lot of Mexican laborers or if you brought in any non-union laborers from any other state." <br /><br />Other congressmen expressed their support for the Davis-Bacon Act in ways that were more temperate in expressing their racially discriminatory agenda. They railed against "transient labor", "cheap labor" and "cheap imported labor." AFL president William Green made it clear what his union's interests were, "(C)olored labor is being sought to demoralize wage rates." <br /><br />
 

rolmops

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Ralph everything you say is true for the 1931 version of the act.Today however,the unions are a mix of every perceivable color of skin.The reason why this act was set up is no longer valid.President Bush used your argument to remove the wage protection that would have been in force for every worker who works on rebuilding, regardless of creed ,race or religion.<br />In fact, Bush used the argument of racism to deny workers a living wage.Bush is not a racist,he does not care for any low wage worker, be he black, green ,red or white.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

The act continues today to restrict the opportunities of black workers on federal and federally subsidized projects by favoring disproportionately white, unionized and skilled workers over disproportionately black, non-unionized and unskilled workers
If you want to see what that sort of socialism does to a country go an do some reading about the mess Europe is in, expecially Germany and France.<br /><br />Why do so many Union people have such little faith in the themselves and the free market to earn based upon their skills and talents? Why do they feel like they need big brother to protect them and tell them what they are worth?
 

rolmops

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Please do not compare socialism to the social democratic party system in europe.Besides,what is so terrible in these countries?The national debt is much smaller than here. Everybody has health insurance and education is free for everybody.The average life expectany is higher than here.There is far less violent crime.I have lived and studied in Europe and travel there 3 to 4 times a year.You are sadly misinformed if you think that the European economies are in a mess.Did it ever occur to you that the USA is not neccesarily the best and most succesful?<br />Why does the laborer need union protection? Work is a product that can be bought and sold.When workers unite,they can sell their product at a higher price.It is simply a good way to make a buck.This is something every capitalist should understand and appreciate.
 

wildbill59

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May 14, 2005
Messages
395
Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Our senior center recenty decided to do a major addition and apllied for a gubbermint grant. They received a grant for $100,000. But the catch was they had to comply with Davis-Bacon. Guess what? It would cost more than the hundred grand to build the addition if they accepted the grant because of D-B. Go figure.
 

SoulWinner

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Ralph, you have been sucked into one of Rolmops vortexes of stupidity. Get out while you can or the commies will consume you.
 

oddjob

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Construction unions suck. A mecca of incompetent, dangerous and unskilled laborers.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

oddjob<br /> sometimes I agree with that. I have seen so much incompetent roadwork here its not funny,<br /> they new currituck bridge opened with much fan fare and hoopla and handshaking and back slapping aboung out state leaders. all were here for photo ops and to extol how they did such wonderment. a week later the bridge was closed due to uneven sections made travel above 35MPH unsafe. it did give a new meaning to "hop" over to the mainland. they spent a month trying to grind down the high spots with a huge guard rail mounted grinder.<br /> its still sets up serious occilations in some cars and has led to loss of control a few times since. and thats just one part of our "new" inadequte road system here.
 

Ralph 123

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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

By the time Germans decide, it'll be too late<br />By Mark Steyn<br />(Filed: 20/09/2005)<br /><br />If you want the state of Europe in a nutshell, skip the German election coverage and consider this news item from the south of France: a fellow in Marseilles is being charged with fraud because he lived with the dead body of his mother for five years in order to continue receiving her pension of 700 euros a month. <br /><br />She was 94 when she croaked, so she'd presumably been enjoying the old government cheque for a good three decades or so, but her son figured he might as well keep the money rolling in until her second century and, with her corpse tucked away under a pile of rubbish in the living room, the female telephone voice he put on for the benefit of the social services office was apparently convincing enough. As the Reuters headline put it: "Frenchman lived with dead mother to keep pension."<br /><br />That's the perfect summation of Europe: welfare addiction over demographic reality.<br /><br />Think of Germany as that flat in Marseilles, and Mr Schröder's government as the stiff, and the country's many state benefits as that French bloke's dead mum's benefits. Germany is dying, demographically and economically. Pick any of the usual indicators of a healthy advanced industrial democracy: Unemployment? The highest for 70 years. House prices? Down. New car registration? Nearly 15 per cent lower than in 1999. General nuttiness? A third of Germans under 30 think the United States government was responsible for the terrorist attacks of September 11.<br /><br />While the unemployment, real estate and car sales may be reversible, that last number suggests the German electorate isn't necessarily the group you'd want to pitch a rational argument to. In the run-up to the election campaign, there were endless references to "necessary reforms" and "painful change". And, in the end, the voters decided they weren't in the mood for change, especially the painful kind.<br /><br />It was Angela Merkel's election to lose, and she certainly did. She did a swell job selling herself to foreign capitals as the radical reformer Germany needed. Alas, when it came to putting the same case to her own people, she balked. By the end of the campaign, she was promising little more than some slight tinkering, and even that proved too much for great swaths of eastern and central Germany.<br /><br />Back in the summer, I was reprimanded by a couple of Euro-grandees for my gloomy assessment of the Continent. Just you wait, they chided me; Mrs Merkel was "Germany's Thatcher" and this chap Sarkozy was "France's Reagan" and in a year's time the entire political scene would be transformed. I couldn't see it myself. Mrs Thatcher and President Reagan were certainly powerful personalities, but 25 years ago they also had electorates who accepted that the status quo was exhausted and unsustainable. The Germans are nowhere near that point.<br /><br />In fact, insofar as there's been any trend in recent regional and European elections, it's that voters were punishing Mr Schröder's party even for the very modest reforms to which he was committed: they're not at the Thatcher stage, they're more like those council workers who reacted to Jim Callaghan's call for a limit of five per cent pay increases by demanding 40 per cent. According to recent polls, 70 per cent of Germans want no further cuts in the welfare state and prefer increasing taxation on the very rich. In April, only 45 per cent of Germans agreed that competition is good for economic growth and employment.<br /><br />In other words, things are going to have to get a lot worse before German voters will seriously consider radical change. And the question then is whether the Christian Democrats will be the radical change they consider: as Sunday's results in east Germany indicate, it's as likely if not more so to be ex-Commies or neo-Nazis or some other opportunist fringe party. The longer European countries postpone the "painful" reforms, the more painful they're going to be.<br /><br />That being so, a serious "reform" party ought not to be propping up the status quo. The Christian Democrats have nothing to gain from joining the SPD in a grand coalition of all the no-talents. All that would happen is that blame for the ongoing sclerosis would no longer be borne by Mr Schröder alone but could be generously apportioned to Mrs Merkel, too. <br /><br />Meanwhile, the Greens and the new Left party would become the principal opposition and the last thing Germany needs is to rearrange its political dynamic as a choice between the status quo and the far Left. So my advice to the Christian Democrats would be to sit this one out. You're only going to get one shot at fixing the country and a neither-of-the-above election where no one has a mandate for anything isn't it.<br /><br />Which brings us back to that nonagenarian corpse in the Marseilles flat: what does it take to persuade the citizens of "enlightened" social democracies that sometimes you've got to give up the benefits cheque? Guardian and Independent types have had great sport with America over the last couple of weeks, gleefully citing the wreckage of New Orleans as a savage indictment of the "selfishness" of capitalism. <br /><br />The argument they make is usually a moral one - that there's something better and more compassionate about us all sharing the burden as a community. But the election results in Germany and elsewhere suggest that, in fact, nothing makes a citizen more selfish than lavish welfare and that once he's enjoying the fruits thereof he couldn't give a hoot about the broader societal interest. "Social democracy" turns out to be explicitly anti-social.<br /><br />Old obdurate Leftists can argue about which system is "better", but at a certain point it becomes irrelevant: by 2050, there will be more and wealthier Americans, and fewer and poorer Europeans. In the 14th century, it took the Black Death to wipe out a third of Europe's population. In the course of the 21st century, Germany's population will fall by over 50 per cent to some 38 million or lower - killed not by disease or war but by the Eutopia to which Mr Schröder and his electorate are wedded. <br /><br />On Sunday, Germany's voters decided that, like that Frenchman, they can live with the stench of death as long as the government benefits keep coming.
 

KaGee

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Aug 14, 2004
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Re: Potential wage cuts for rebuilding workers.

Rolmops hasn't a clue. The socialist systems in place in the old European countries are a house of cards ready to fall at anytime.
 
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