Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

[catfishjoe]

Hi everyone,

So tomorrow I have to pickup a 1.5 ton boat tomorrow that's on a double axle magic tilt w/ surge breaks. I'll be driving 1.5 hours away, in a Kia Sorrento (able to pull 3500). I have a 4-way flat coming from the suv. The trailer has a 7-way round.

Seller says he'll have an adapter available for me, and not to worry.

Now, as I understand it, a trailer w/ surge brakes should have a 5-way flat minimum (extra signal for brake disengaging when in reverse). Seller says he had the trailer harness replaced for convenience (has other large trailers w/o surge breaks).

As I won't have that 5th wire signaling, the only functional problem I'll have is no reverse without manual disengagement of the surge break -- correct?

My major concern is safety. I'm basing the above info on what I've been told and read. Clearly pulling that much weight in a vehicle that I've never towed with raises safety concerns.

Am I just overthinking this? If the adapter provided converts into a 5 wire, will I still be able to plug it in (from pictures it looks like it will still work). I guess worst case scenario I may have to do some wire splicing (not a huge deal).

 

[FastFission]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

I'm in the process of retrofitting some surge brakes, so I have been studying brake connection a bit.

I believe you're correct. If you have disc type surge brakes, the fifth wire is hooked up to the backup light circuit and basically cuts out the surge brakes when you're in reverse. If you have free backing drum surge brakes (I'm getting that type), then you just have the four wires.

I can't say if you can just plug the five wire into a four wire plug. I don't think it would be too hard to do a bit of minor wiring.

I'm not sure if you have a manual lockout or not, but I think most of the couplers do have some method of locking out the surge coupling (I know the Tiedown Engineering coupling I'm getting has a lockout pin).

Good luck

Carl

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

The 5 wire MIGHT plug into the 4 with the 5th pin sticking out in the air. Maybe!
You will loose automatic backup capability.
Some trailers come with a manual "Doodad" you insert in the hitch to disable the brakes when backing up. Another Maybe!

Double axles usually do not come into play until the 4000lb range.
You likely have a 1.5 ton boat (3000lb) on a 1000lb trailer.

The brakes are the least of your worries.
We will tell you don't do it, but we know you are going to anyway.
Stay under 50mph and and keep 100 yard open in front of you.
Praying won't help, but insurance might.

 

[Philster]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

Brake in in place, you have disk brakes and no reverse unless you pull the pin from behind the ball and insert it in the back slot to stop the coupler from going back and engaging the brakes.

With pin in place, you are safe.

I am confused though. What is coming from where? My truck has a 4 connector and 7 connector harness, but no 5.... and my trailer has a 5. So, I use an adapter whose round 7 fits into my truck, and the trailer 5 into the end of the adapter.

I have disk brakes, and have to wire up to reverse lockout yet. To reverse... yeah, it sux.

 

[catfishjoe]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

I'm in the process of retrofitting some surge brakes, so I have been studying brake connection a bit.

I believe you're correct. If you have disc type surge brakes, the fifth wire is hooked up to the backup light circuit and basically cuts out the surge brakes when you're in reverse. If you have free backing drum surge brakes (I'm getting that type), then you just have the four wires.

I can't say if you can just plug the five wire into a four wire plug. I don't think it would be too hard to do a bit of minor wiring.

I'm not sure if you have a manual lockout or not, but I think most of the couplers do have some method of locking out the surge coupling (I know the Tiedown Engineering coupling I'm getting has a lockout pin).

Good luck

Carl

This helps. Thank you!

Double axles usually do not come into play until the 4000lb range.

This week has been insane so its no wonder I overlooked this. I'm fairly certain the weight works out closer to 3575 lbs total weight (not including extras). Boat is listed as 2725lbs w/ motor. Trailer 850lbs.

I'll be extra safe (will probably take me 2 hours to get home). I'll be a nervous wreck im sure (going alone.)

 

[JB]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

It would be foolhardy to plan to tow over 3500# with your Kia, Joe. Towing at or even near limit is something for professionals.

You will have no testing and development time and you will be over capacity. Bring your boat home with a properly rated and equipped truck, then get a vehicle that can tow it safely or spend the time to prove and develop electrical connections, towing capacity and braking performance.

Take the seller's assurances with a grain of salt. Once you hook up it is not his worry, it is your life and that of your vehicle and boat that will be at risk.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

... I am confused though. What is coming from where? My truck has a 4 connector and 7 connector harness, but no 5.... and my trailer has a 5. So, I use an adapter whose round 7 fits into my truck, and the trailer 5 into the end of the adapter...

The previous owner cut the 5pin flat off of the trailer and changed it to a 7 pin RV connector.
The previous owner is going to supply a homemade pigtail to get the 7 pin Trailer back to the 5 pin flat.
His KIA has a standard 4 pin flat that he is trying to plug the 5 pin flat into.

The pigtail is a reverse gender adapter from what is commonly needed.

 

[H20Rat]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

It would be foolhardy to plan to tow over 3500# with your Kia, Joe. Towing at or even near limit is something for professionals.

I agree with part of your statement, towing of ANY sort is best left for the professionals. But to go along with that, never going to learn without doing.

Just as a FYI for the thread, the sorrento is rated at at 5500/7700 pounds (depending on year) in countries that have driver education. (aka europe) It is the identical vehicle, the difference is the american driver.


3500# behind the sorrento won't be a problem... I've towed up to around 6500# behind my kia borrego (rated to 7500#), it handled it fine but the mileage was BAD. The biggest danger in towing is not the vehicle, its the nut behind the wheel. A bad/inexperienced driver can be a danger to everyone if they have a tinny behind a 1 ton. An experienced driver who has towed everything possible in the last 20 years with zero accidents can tow double or more the rating of a vehicle safely.

 

[catfishjoe]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

Hi guys, I really appreciate the comments and concerns.

Honestly I am not overly concerned with pulling at slightly over capacity. It's admittedly been 10+ years, but I'm an army vet with several years of off road towing experience. I've also pulled a heavy trailer or two down the highway non-professionally (moving, transporting, etc).

We of course never pulled boats or trailers equipped with brakes (mostly disabled vehicles), but I'm a very safe driver who understands not only the dangers of the road, but the common sense physics behind what I'm trying to do.

With that said, I'm mostly concerned with getting down there and not having everything I need to return with working lights and brakes. I plan on turning that 1.5 hour trip into a 2+ hour trip -- no rush at all.

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

I'm in the process of retrofitting some surge brakes, so I have been studying brake connection a bit.

I believe you're correct. If you have disc type surge brakes, the fifth wire is hooked up to the backup light circuit and basically cuts out the surge brakes when you're in reverse. If you have free backing drum surge brakes (I'm getting that type), then you just have the four wires.

I can't say if you can just plug the five wire into a four wire plug. I don't think it would be too hard to do a bit of minor wiring.

I'm not sure if you have a manual lockout or not, but I think most of the couplers do have some method of locking out the surge coupling (I know the Tiedown Engineering coupling I'm getting has a lockout pin).

Good luck

Carl

Don't mean to hijack the post but if you haven't made the change yet you are getting ready to make 2 serious errors.

1st going with drum brakes.

2nd going with Tiedown.

Have had both and TD really sucks in the quality of their products and disc brakes are well worth the extra cost, particularly if you are building from scratch.

As far as the OP, you confuse "safe" with "careful". But possibly your vehicle is capable of doing the job. The biggest challenge is always stopping not pulling, at least until you get to the ramp. You can pull with almost anything, but when stopping the shear mass of the towed load comes into play and can make for an interesting day.

So, be safe by being careful and proactive in traffic.

 

[catfishjoe]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

So, be safe by being careful and proactive in traffic.

Thanks! Since the trip back is 90% highway with a speed limit of 70, I think I'll temporarily name the boat:

"**** You, go around me"

Definitely going to be interesting. 2 hours on a main artery on memorial day weekend. I must be out of my mind.

 

[drrpm]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

It sound like you will be fine. Post an after action report to let us know how it went.

 

[catfishjoe]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

It sound like you will be fine. Post an after action report to let us know how it went.

Thanks for the vote of confidence

I'll bring along a spool of wire and a small electrical toolbag just incase. I'll even run down and grab a female 5way adapter just in case he thinks I have a 5 way coming off my vehicle.

Oh, and I'll definitely post an update tomorrow for posterity

 

[lncoop]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

This may not be feasible for you at this juncture, but why not go ahead and equip the Sorrento for towing with a five pin harness, then take a five pin pigtail with you to replace the seven pin that's on there now?

 

[catfishjoe]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

This may not be feasible for you at this juncture, but why not go ahead and equip the Sorrento for towing with a five pin harness, then take a five pin pigtail with you to replace the seven pin that's on there now?

That's absolutely the long term plan. This week has been a bit of chaos so somehow we overlooked these details until last minute. I have a very small window of opportunity to pick it up before the weekend as he is currently in my area (Raleigh area), yet headed back home (with me following him).

He's going on vacation for the weekend tonight after he gets home and packs.

I could of course handle this next week (properly), but ask yourself if you'd be fine with waiting when the forecast is 86 and sunny on memorial day weekend?

 

[lncoop]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

That's absolutely the long term plan. This week has been a bit of chaos so somehow we overlooked these details until last minute. I have a very small window of opportunity to pick it up before the weekend as he is currently in my area (Raleigh area), yet headed back home (with me following him).

He's going on vacation for the weekend tonight after he gets home and packs.

I could of course handle this next week (properly), but ask yourself if you'd be fine with waiting when the forecast is 86 and sunny on memorial day weekend?

Waiting is something I don't do well, so I understand completely. But, if you call U-haul you might be pleasantly surprised at how quickly they can have the Sorrento properly equipped for the five pin, or they may say it will cost six bills and they can't get to it until next week. If the former is the case great, but if the latter is the case at least you'll find out what it will take. Phone calls are free. Why don't you look into it? Nothing to lose and everything to gain.

 

[UncleWillie]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

... but why not go ahead and equip the Sorrento for towing with a five pin harness, then take a five pin pigtail with you to replace the seven pin that's on there now?

Better yet equip it with a 7 pin socket and be done with it.
The Prevoius owner went with the 7 pin because they are just so much more robust.

And you can have 7, 5 and 4 all available. See Here!

 

[lncoop]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

That would work too.

 

[four winns 214]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

Catfishjoe, really, call ANY trailer place to see if they can set your tow vehicle up with the proper connector. It is not rocket science. You might be able to accomplish the work yourself.

 

[gtochris]

Re: Picking up first boat tomorrow and have a safety concern. Please help?

Your wiring (5 pin trailer into 4 pin SUV) will work, you are correct- only missing reverse lockout, but that is negotible in that you can turn on your headlamps and plug that connection upside down (only connecting the 5th wire) and be able to back up if your new trailer is lacking a pin for free wheeling. On travel trailers/ RV's you need to disconnect the anti-sway bar prior to backing up so it's not just boat trailers.

Make sure you have the right size ball and your hitch is up for the load, I think the Sorento came with a Class 2 hitch.