PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

[bruceb58]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Hi Bruce,
The 50mA current draw you reference is correct, if you have any or all circuits programmed to be "always live". If none are programmed to be "always live", there is virtually no draw at rest. It really depends on how a boat is used/stored, what battery capacity is, etc. For instance, I have two 100Ah batteries on my boat. So, I could leave the PDM60 on with 'always live" circuits for about 166 days (over 5 months) before my batteries would drop below 10.5 volts, and be compromised. It would be about 80 days (2.5+ months) if I had just one battery. If I'm not running the motor for 80 or 160 days to recharge the batteries, that means it's in storage. I run mine on a tender when it's in storage. Once again, different strokes for different folks, but the 50mA is by no means a wreckless amount of draw to manage.

Most people that own boats on here do not have 100AH batteries and most don't leave both batteries on at at the same time. Average 24 series battery that most people have on their boats is a group 24 which is a 60AH battery. Since you don't want to discharge any battery less than 50%, you whould not want to have more than a 30A draw down of the battery. At 1.2Ah per day that would happen in 25 days.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

This device is all of a sudden showing up in multiple forums in the last couple of weeks. Sound a little strange? :facepalm:

PDM60 - Cool New Product - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
PDM60 - Cool Power Hub - The Hull Truth - Boating and Fishing Forum
New Rewiring / Upgrade Solution - Endless Boating Community Forums

Hi again Bruce.
Stop beating me up would ya? It's not really "strange" at all. I work for the guy/company that invented, and manufactures the PDM60. We're a 100% US company, and it's a US manufactured product.
I'm the only "sales/marketing" guy. (a part time guy did just recently start helping out) It's my duty to introduce the PDM60 to the marine market. I posted to all three forums; did so just this week. No shame here. I believe we have a product that can help people, and make complicated, messy wiring projects easier and cleaner for them. All the while providing more flexibility and functionality. Obviously, before you can ever move any product, you need to let people know it exists. You need to answer any and all questions people have. That's my goal here, to let people know about it. It may cost too much for some people, it may be too complicated for others, others might not trust the technology. Whether we move 5 or 5000pcs into the marine market, all those questions will still exist for some people. Some others will have answers. In the end, the product will succeed or fail based on its performance. Our experience, and the experiences of those who have purchased the units (a significant number) has shown that the technology is rock solid.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Cool device, put I have to question the cost effectiveness. I replaced the helm distribution panel 2 years ago with a 12 circuit panel with bus bar for less than $50. The same project would have cost me over $300 using this device. I just don't see the value.

Call me old fashioned, but I'll take the cost effectiveness and reliability of a glass fuse over an expensive programmable device any day of the week. You can buy a lot of fuses for $150.

Thanks for the feedback Admiral D.
You're right, the $199 price tag is not easy to justify for many. Some others don't mind the price. I can tell you this. The price is not a lot of fluff. We've spend a lot of time, and money, making sure this product is dialed in, and will go the distance. We've got a long, long way to go just to break even.
I too see things all the time that I think are cool, but I can't justify spending the $$ to get them. This is a bit of a niche product, and it's not for everyone.

Thanks for the positive feedback though. Be safe out there on the water.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Hello Commander GPOP,
I do think that redundant sytems are imperative in a marine environment. The degree to which that need to be implemented, depends greatly on where you plan to be cruising. Small lake..... or Lake Michigan?? Sounding the horn, or rounding the Horn.... it's all situational. Any system can fail, at any time. Engine, pumps, lights...... even hearts.
If I were rounding the cape, I'd gladly power my craft with a PDM60. And yes, I'd have a spare on hand..... just in case. We've had people use these on the Baja,in Lotus 7 race cars, on cop bikes in Norway, and on motorcycles making 10 day, 10000+ mile rides. ("Iron Butt" rally riders) They're solid.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Most people that own boats on here do not have 100AH batteries and most don't leave both batteries on at at the same time. Average 24 series battery that most people have on their boats is a group 24 which is a 60AH battery. Since you don't want to discharge any battery less than 50%, you whould not want to have more than a 30A draw down of the battery. At 1.2Ah per day that would happen in 25 days.

Yeah, that makes sense Bruce. I like to keep my batteries topped off as best I can as well. You make a good point that one should simply be aware of their battery capacity, the draw on it, etc. A lot of people have no idea what you're talking about when you start talking Ahours, etc., but it's very simple to calculate, and manage. We've had people use "Aways Live" circuit settings on vehicles with 12-16 Ah batteries, with no problems. As with all electrical units, It's just important to know what you're managing, and how it will affect battery voltage.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Hello Commander GPOP,
I do think that redundant sytems are imperative in a marine environment. The degree to which that need to be implemented, depends greatly on where you plan to be cruising. Small lake..... or Lake Michigan?? Sounding the horn, or rounding the Horn.... it's all situational. Any system can fail, at any time. Engine, pumps, lights...... even hearts.
If I were rounding the cape, I'd gladly power my craft with a PDM60. And yes, I'd have a spare on hand..... just in case. We've had people use these on the Baja,in Lotus 7 race cars, on cop bikes in Norway, and on motorcycles making 10 day, 10000+ mile rides. "iron butt" rally riders. Thy're solid.

Its a hard item to sell as its a complicated way to do a simple task but people like tech so as long as you have all the supporting wiring diagrams and software on the web so we can link to it when forum members ask for advice then im happy to see other people using them.
Maybe there's a use for a ignition activated switch and the fact that its also a electronic fuse is neither here nor there as I don't change fuse sizes after the original design. So a different sales tactic telling people how they can increase there amp load with out burning out the ignition switch might be a better approach rather than telling us that that its a programmable fuse that's replacing a 30 cent item.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Seriously! You are on here for less than a whole day and this is how you try to promote your product? I am surprised you don't accuse me of thinking the earth is flat!

Good luck!

Hi Bruce,
I'm having trouble keeping up with all of your posts. You cut all the nice things I said after the quotes. (You've got me outskilled and outexperienced here, so take it easy on me.) I wasn't trying to insult you, I was simply pointing out the fact that sometimes, especially with regard to new technologies, people jump the gun in rendering a verdict on them.
You had said....
"This is the ultimate Rube Goldberg." Good one. I simply wanted to point out that others, have felt the same way, about other products in the past. Over time, some came to see themselves inaccurate in their summations.
You sir, are a five star, Supreme Mariner with over 15911 posts to your credit. I respect that, and I respect you as a fellow boater and gentleman. That being said, the "Rube Goldberg" comment dug deep my friend. Very deep.
Lets move ahead, shall we?

 

[kahuna123]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

I don't get it. When I wire a boat it doesn't need this type of protection. I can see where this device could have a place in other applications. Ground would be a very weak link here. May work in a car because of cost.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

If I were to put this on my boat, I could see some good and bad. I probably wouldn't put it on a bilge pump, navigation lights, VHF radio, fire suppression, CO sensors or anything safety related. I could see using it for cockpit lights, a stereo, TV or anything non critical. Problem is that if that's the case, why not just keep all those circuits on an existing fuse panel. If your are really worried about being able to reset after a failure, use an auto resetting circuit breaker or manual resetting breaker.

You sir, are a five star, Supreme Mariner with over 15911 posts to your credit. I respect that, and I respect you as a fellow boater and gentleman. That being said, the "Rube Goldberg" comment dug deep my friend. Very deep.
Lets move ahead, shall we?

I apologize for that comment. I will keep comments like that out of the discussion.

Its an interesting product, I do admit, and have basically been reverse engineering it in my head last night. I just see major limitations for boat use.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Its a hard item to sell as its a complicated way to do a simple task but people like tech so as long as you have all the supporting wiring diagrams and software on the web so we can link to it when forum members ask for advice then im happy to see other people using them.
Maybe there's a use for a ignition activated switch and the fact that its also a electronic fuse is neither here nor there as I don't change fuse sizes after the original design. So a different sales tactic telling people how they can increase there amp load with out burning out the ignition switch might be a better approach rather than telling us that that its a programmable fuse that's replacing a 30 cent item.

Excellent feedback, and I appreciate it; you make some very valid points there. That is actually a huge benefit of the system. There are actually two trigger wires on the unit. One that senses +voltage, and another that senses ground. You configure each circuit with the trigger, and how you want the triggering to turn the circuit on/off. So you could have two or three high amp circuits turned on or off by a switch that's connected to the ground trigger on one side, and a any ground point on the other. That would turn circuits on/off. You can do the same with the ignition trigger. You could power up to 60A of accessories, triggered by the keyswitch, while pulling less than a one extra milli-amp of power through the keyswitch. (or any other switch for that matter) We designed the unit to work with CAN type electrical systems as well, so we designed the triggering of the unit to be almost non detectable from a voltage standpoint.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

If I were to put this on my boat, I could see some good and bad. I probably wouldn't put it on a bilge pump, navigation lights, VHF radio, fire suppression, CO sensors or anything safety related. I could see using it for cockpit lights, a stereo, TV or anything non critical. Problem is that if that's the case, why not just keep all those circuits on an existing fuse panel. If your are really worried about being able to reset after a failure, use an auto resetting circuit breaker or manual resetting breaker.

I apologize for that comment. I will keep comments like that out of the discussion.

Its an interesting product, I do admit, and have basically been reverse engineering it in my head last night. I just see major limitations for boat use.

Thanks for the feedback Bruce. One of the greatest things about boating is the brotherhood/fellowship/mutual respect. Truthfully, I wouldn't place any product, job related or not, above that on my "what's really important" list. I work because I have to, I boat because I love to.
I think what one has to do is to weigh out the advantages vs. the potential disadvantages. For example, lets say I wanted to be able to turn the power on/off for one, or a few higher-amperage applications. I could just run the ground trigger to a switch. So I wouldn't have any power running to the switch, or through the switch. I could do that with just one wire routed to the switch and off to ground.
One of the problems I used to have in my boat was that when I stopped to fish, or watch the sunset, etc. I'd have accessories going. Lights, depth-finder, stereo. Before I keyed on, I would always choose to turn all those things off to allow full power to start the engine. With the PDM60, I can set a 6 second delay, and when I key on, no power will run to those accessories for six seconds. When I dock, I can shut down and pull the keys, and have an interior/or exterior light circuit programmed to stay on for 10 minutes, and then shut off. So... I can dock, get all my gear unloaded, etc, and it will turn off by itself. Commander GPOP mad a great point in that you can switch all of these circuits using little or now power for the switching itself. This eliminated the need for running high amperage levels through the keyswitch, or having to put relays into circuits to manage the loads. You can do a lot with the unit beyond just powering and protecting.
Another neat thing is that all the grounds do not run back through the unit. All your accessories are grounded independently of the unit. It's positive output only, which reduces the possible internal failure points. Once again, we've tested to over 400,000 cycles at a full 60A, so they are dependable. Ever had your VHF just up and quit? Today, most electronics get thrown out because of being outdated as opposed to "wearing out" or failing. These units have the most recent solid state components, all of which were selected for quality. We didn't use cheap guts for this thing. We made it to last.

We've had guys do all kinds of setups with them. Check the photo below out; you can see the unit mounted on his dash. Crazy huh?

With regard to essential items being wired to/through the unit, that again I think depends on how you boat, and your level of trust in the device. (which will grow over time)

I'm in Iowa..... so no matter how hard I try, I'm never more than maybe a mile from shore. If I was to boat where it's life and death, no matter what I'd do, I be awful sure I had emergency plans in place. The LEDs on the PDM60 help keep you posted as to what's going on, and a unit properly installed could be switched out in about 3-4 minutes. Once again, you're not working with all the grounds. Just the +V leads. The Posi-locks we include make adding components, taking components out, switching a PDM60 out quick and painless.
All that being said, this is a little unit you can depend on. I just have to find someone to use it in the Bering Sea, or on a sail around Cape Horn, or a trip across Lake Michigan or something. In the end, it has to prove itself. It's like a new deckhand, and until it proves itself, it's just new deckhand.
I'm serious about wanting someone to review the item and report back what they find, so if you or anyone else out there that reads this is willing to do a real test, a real evaluation, and provide real, unbiased feedback. touch base with me.

Talk to you soon. Thanks again.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

I don't get it. When I wire a boat it doesn't need this type of protection. I can see where this device could have a place in other applications. Ground would be a very weak link here. May work in a car because of cost.

Hello Kahuna,
You do a lot of boat rewiring? If so, I, like everyone else, could benefit from your experience. You reference the ground being a weakness. The only ground that runs through the PDM60 is a single ground for the internal circuit board. At it's maximum, with all LEDs lit up, it pulls around 70 milli-amps, so very little power is required. The grounds on all your accessories are routed to any suitable ground point. (engine, panel, battery ground bus, etc.)
We know that circuits need protection, regardless of the vehicle/vessel it's being used in/on. You say that when you wire a boat that "this type of protection" isn't needed. I agree completely. Marine vessels have had circuits powered and protected for a long, long time before this product came along. Then again, as for "need", I have to admit that I really don't "need" a boat. I have one because of a want... not a need. I agree, the PDM60 is not a "need" item. That being said, people that want custom features, and advanced circuit protection can find it all right here in the PDM60. For instance, if you wanted, you could wire your existing bilge blower switch to the PDM60 Ground Trigger. (One side to the trigger wire, the other side to ground) You could set that circuit the appropriate Amp load, set it to be GROUND TRIGGERED, and set a 180 second delay. Then, you could just flip the switch on and off. It would activate the blower, run for three minutes, and then auto shut off. You could do the same with a bilge pump. You could even set it up so that a single switch activated the both the pump circuit and the the blower circuit, and set custom run times for each. (blower 90 seconds / bilge 180 seconds, etc.) You could do similar setups with interior or docking lights so they'd auto shut off after you shut down, unpacked, and offloaded. Self switching.... you just can't do that with standard fuse panels. You can also control a lot of amperage without using relays or running lots of current to the dash. Once you wrap your head around all the features, and how the wiring, triggers, and settings work, there are a lot of possibilities. Plus..... it's rock solid, and impervious to corrosion.
Once again, it's not a "need" item...... it's a "want" item. A lot of people want, and can benefit from, the capabilities the unit has.

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Best of all, you can get them right here on the I-Boats site.

pdm60 - iboats

 

[kahuna123]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Like I said. I can see a place for this in some installs. But not in this forum.

 

[agallant80]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

Sorry, but I wouldn't put this on a boat...ever!

Why would you take a circuit that is protected by a fuse and complicate this simple protection with something that can't possibly be as reliable?

This is the ultimate Rube Goldberg.

Some times I wish forums had a "like" button kinda like facebook does.

 

[agallant80]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

You know what. Though I still wish the site had a like button. I can see how this would be helpfull. With all of the electronic stuff I have had to wire from the dash back to the fuse block this would have been helpfull in adding the following things to the boat

Plotter
VHV
LED Lights
Compass light

 

[PDM60 Guy]

Re: PDM60 - Cool Power Hub for Electrical/Electronics

You know what. Though I still wish the site had a like button. I can see how this would be helpfull. With all of the electronic stuff I have had to wire from the dash back to the fuse block this would have been helpfull in adding the following things to the boat

Plotter
VHV
LED Lights
Compass light

Yeah, the PDM60 unit is a good solution for that kind of situation. The flexibility that the programming provides really makes it nice, and obviously, electronics are here to stay. My boat's is loaded with electronic gadgets that didn't even exist when the boat was made. As you know, most watercraft fuse panels are geared towards handling the boats existing circuits, with maybe one or two extra circuits. Sure, you can wire in/add on to that, run a new fuse panel, or just fuse and run everything direct to the battery. There's a lot of ways to get things done. This device makes for a clean, easy install. At the same time, it incorporates new and highly dependable technology into your boat. I've got an older boat, so I'm, consistently trying to get things updated. Anybody have an old alarm clock, or an old tv that's ran for 10-15-20years? Electronics have come a long way just in the last decade. They're becoming more and more refined, and dependable. That's what makes products like this possible, and highly dependable.