Overheat on my 3.0l...

[halfmoa]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

One final thing. The pulley may be salvageable. The broken center fits perfectly into the pulley and I think that I could weld her right back in with no distortion.

View attachment 143179

It may not be the easiest piece to find but don't jury rig it!

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

I'm with Bond-o and Don on this. A new pump with some sort of through-hull configuration would be best.

 

[mark1905]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Ayuh,.... Ironic,.... yer ignorin' yer own rant...

To be Honest,....
You've got a cobbed up piece of Poo, assembled with mis-fittin', broken parts,....

Now,... is the time to buy a raw water pump, 'n the bracketry to properly mount it to a 3.0l block....

+100000



Are you serious right now?? You're skimping on a $20 used pulley to try and put you and your family at risk by stranding them on the ocean by welding that thing back together???!? To quote a wise man:

Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time,
But always enough time to do it again?


Get yourself a new raw water pump for $90 (http://www.michiganmotorz.com/circulation-water-pump-p-53.html), a used but good pulley for $20 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/MERCRUISER-..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c644787fc&vxp=mtr).. and do the job right.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Hey, I've spent most of the day trying to find the right pulley. Here is what I sent the guy on EBay:

What is the width of this pulley? I am looking for 5" What is the distance between bolts? I am looking for 1 1/4". How about the height? I am looking for 1 7/8". Is the center hole 5/8"?

But really, do you guys just not know how to weld and true a pulley? It's just not that hard and when done right, welds are stronger than the surrounding metal. I used to weld for a living and reconditioning a simple steel part like this is just not that difficult. Mind you, I would rather just buy one, but I do have to find the RIGHT one. Your first picture is for the water pump that sits on the front of the block and NOT a raw water pump that sits off to the side and feeds the one on the block a steady supply of fresh water. If the pulley is for THAT (and I don't think it is by the picture) then it's the wrong pulley for my raw water pump.

Hey, I get that you guys feel that craftsmanship is dead and that all you can do is to keep bolting on new or parts that are reconditioned by others. I get that. I really do. When it comes to mechanical devices, I am a craftsman and not just another parts changer. I want to understand WHY something broke and then fix it. Back in the sixties it was pretty common for a mechanic to rebuild alternators, starters, water pumps and even fuel pumps. Heck, we even rebuilt Brake parts including master cylinders, power boosters and relined shoes. Something happened back then. Many mechanics lost their ability to do anything but change out the entire part rather than fix the one broken piece. Well, I have had to warranty way too much of the crap they pass off as rebuilt to know that the guy pressing out hundreds of these units a day doesn't actually care if I am stranded out in the ocean. I care more about my safety, my life than he does, and you can bet that I am not going to do something substandard just to get by. It's why I never send my scuba regulators out for servicing: I do them myself! I never ever let anyone do more than an oil change on my Honda Ridgeline either which just passed 200,000 miles. So please, continue to throw money at a problem because you lack the patience and skill to fix it: that's your prerogative. I'll take the road less traveled and fix things the old fashioned way: with patience, skill and a bit of sweat. [/rant]

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

The actual rebuild of the pump was simple. I sent a message to SherwoodPumps.com and got an immediate answer. He sent me a picture of several pumps and mine was right there. I went to NAPA with the list and he had all the parts in stock. All of them except for the pulley. The bearing was about $10 and the seal assembly was $27. I bought a couple of cir-clips as well for the shaft.



Here are the parts, old and new side by side.



If you looked at the parts, you can see that I almost installed the seal going up, instead of pressing against the bottom. Everything pressed in smoothly using brass hammers and aluminum drifts. The best part was the awesome click as the cir-clip slid into place. It was fortunate that I had a transmission tool that that had a 5/8" bore to just slip over the shaft and push the cir-clip into place without fighting it. Using the right tools made this an easy job.



Here you can see the upper cir-clip in place with the bearing nicely pressed in. The whole assembly is now smooth as silk... fine silk. It took two tries to press the flange on and line up with the roll pin holes. I then carefully installed the impeller and tested the pump. I lubed it generously with water and dish soap. I can turn it by hand and you can hear the pump working.

I have a number of feelers out for a pulley and hopefully that will come through in the next day or so. I have invested about $70 so far in rebuilding this pump and that includes the new impeller. I hope to keep the entire cost under $100. I am now certain that the humming sound I have been hearing was caused by the insertion of that crappy plastic spacer and the pulley precessing on the flange as it rotated. I won't know if spacing is an issue until I get the new pulley.

 

[mark1905]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

While I applaud and admire your work on rebuilding the pump, I'm still not understanding how spending $100 on fixing up an old beat up pump plus the time and labor plus the gas money to drive to Napa is better or wiser than spending $90 on a brand new one with a warranty. Craftsmanship be damned.. that's just simple logic.

Also.. someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there has been a single size change to a Mercruiser 3.0 water pump v-pulley from 1968-2008.

 

[halfmoa]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Hey, I've spent most of the day trying to find the right pulley. Here is what I sent the guy on EBay:
But really, do you guys just not know how to weld and true a pulley? It's just not that hard and when done right, welds are stronger than the surrounding metal. I used to weld for a living and reconditioning a simple steel part like this is just not that difficult. Mind you, I would rather just buy one, but I do have to find the RIGHT one. Your first picture is for the water pump that sits on the front of the block and NOT a raw water pump that sits off to the side and feeds the one on the block a steady supply of fresh water. If the pulley is for THAT (and I don't think it is by the picture) then it's the wrong pulley for my raw water pump.

Hey, I get that you guys feel that craftsmanship is dead and that all you can do is to keep bolting on new or parts that are reconditioned by others. I get that. I really do. When it comes to mechanical devices, I am a craftsman and not just another parts changer. I want to understand WHY something broke and then fix it. Back in the sixties it was pretty common for a mechanic to rebuild alternators, starters, water pumps and even fuel pumps. Heck, we even rebuilt Brake parts including master cylinders, power boosters and relined shoes. Something happened back then. Many mechanics lost their ability to do anything but change out the entire part rather than fix the one broken piece. Well, I have had to warranty way too much of the crap they pass off as rebuilt to know that the guy pressing out hundreds of these units a day doesn't actually care if I am stranded out in the ocean. I care more about my safety, my life than he does, and you can bet that I am not going to do something substandard just to get by. It's why I never send my scuba regulators out for servicing: I do them myself! I never ever let anyone do more than an oil change on my Honda Ridgeline either which just passed 200,000 miles. So please, continue to throw money at a problem because you lack the patience and skill to fix it: that's your prerogative. I'll take the road less traveled and fix things the old fashioned way: with patience, skill and a bit of sweat. [/rant]

I'm with you in using what can be fixed rather than purchasing new but, given your experience, you know as well as I do whan an out of balance pulley will do to those bearings in short order. If you've got the skill to weld, true, and balance it, do it! I sure as heck don't...

 

[Bondo]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

But really, do you guys just not know how to weld and true a pulley? It's just not that hard and when done right, welds are stronger than the surrounding metal. I used to weld for a living and reconditioning a simple steel part like this is just not that difficult.

Ayuh,.... I usually weld something to something else, almost Daily....

I also know that welding fatigued metal is still fatigued metal, 'n it's gonna Break again, usually quite near yer perfect welds...

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

While I applaud and admire your work on rebuilding the pump, I'm still not understanding how spending $100 on fixing up an old beat up pump plus the time and labor plus the gas money to drive to Napa is better or wiser than spending $90 on a brand new one with a warranty. Craftsmanship be damned.. that's just simple logic.

Where can I get a new raw water pump that exactly matches this one? I can't for $100. I can't for $500. It's an obsolete pump. If I buy a different pump as Don suggests, then I would also have to obtain all of the bracketing and piping. I have visited a dozen boat salvage yards between yesterday and today with no luck on any of that. Don't confuse it with the recirculating pump like this one:

I have a brand new one of these on my boat with a marine bronze impeller on it. This is not the raw water pump that I am working on.

Also.. someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe that there has been a single size change to a Mercruiser 3.0 water pump v-pulley from 1968-2008.

If only I were working on that part of the engine.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

I also know that welding fatigued metal is still fatigued metal, 'n it's gonna Break again, usually quite near yer perfect welds...

As small a part as this is, the heat used in welding it will relax the fatique (work hardening) of the pulley face. If you look at it closely, the bolt holes that hold the pulley down are 75% intact on the pulley side. It was the ill thought out plastic spacer that caused the problem. Still, buying a new pulley appeals to me... IF I can find it. I am going to check the 10 or so leads from EBay to see if anyone measured their pulleys like I asked them to.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Of all the pulleys I have asked about on EBay, none are acceptable... not even close. I welded the center in the pulley today and checked the run out with a dial indicator after I mounted it to the pump. I have about 0.014" lateral and 0.021" axial play. That's less than 1/32" so I think it's acceptable. I took pictures but since I painted the pulley black, they don't really show much. Here's the pulley before I bolted it on:



I assembled it on the pump with new SS bolts, split washers and flat wasters underneath. It's raining, so it might be tomorrow before I mount it on the boat. I just need a 20 minute break in the weather. I am hoping that the pulley without the shim is in alignment with the drive pulley. We'll see.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Pulley Alignment​

It did great and no annoying howling if I go over 4K... in fact I had it over 5k and all I heard was a bit of noise coming from the alternator. Yep, you guessed it. It's out and apart. The rear needle bearings are dry, but they haven't galled the shaft yet. I got to NAPA just as they were closing, so I'll go back in the am. It's an easy GM alternator and I will be replacing these parts:



Standard GM alternator



Field coil tested out fine as did the main diode pack it's connected to.



I don't have a growler here, but the continuity/ground checks came out fine.



The commutators need to be polished as does the shaft. You can see the brush holder in the background.



The parts I will be replacing. Probably about $30 bucks or so.

This is actually the bench I rebuild regulators on and you can see a tool or two I haven't put away yet. I rebuilt my Atomic M1 regs this morning and am evaluating a few others that I might be using for deco and stage bottles.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...



My work bench (in progress). It's 26' long and 2' wide. On the left is my 55# anvil, in the middle is my regulator bench with gauges and to the right is my gun vise. Behind the gun vise is my ultra sonic cleaner. To the right of that is a small drill press and stationary sander. My 6HP compressor is there, but I haven't wired it yet. That will happen next month (I've only been here since February). There's an arbor press and a battery charging area (for my diving lights etc) to the left.



This is my regulator bench. I can air up a regulator test it and then break it down right there. The holes in front of it accept a jig that is threaded 3/8" on one side and 7/16" on the other. These screw into the ports of the reg so I don't have to put them in the vise and mar the finish.



Since this picture was taken, I have added an IP Gauge on the right. That's a magnehelic gauge on the left and measures cracking pressure on my regs.

 

[mpdive]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Just my 2 cents.......When I am out boating, the last thing I want to worry about is a part failing that was broke and then refixed. I knew the minute I bought a boat that it would cost money to maintain it. It was part of the trade off of boat ownership. When my boat was factory made, it was made to tolerances for a reason. Metal fatigue along with a moveable wear items are prone to failure, and are meant to be replaced with new items. I have seen multiple posts on here where people cancel orders on aftermarket parts to get OEM material. There is a reason for it. I call it reliability. If I need brakes on my truck and my next door neighbor has a set of pads with 6,000 miles on them for free, I'm buying new.. It's piece of mind. I understand your predicament with the expense, but when failure happens on a reused or refixed part, we can only hope that there is no snowball effect when we are out in the middle of nowhere. Again just my 2 cents.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

All wear items in the Raw Water pump have been replaced (save one). I didn't reuse any bearings or seals. When your brakes wore out, did you replace the calipers, the brake hoses (flexible and rigid) the master cylinder and all the ABS components associated with it? I bet you just replaced the pads and hopefully at least turned the rotors. Do you worry about the rest of those components failing? I know for a fact that I care about my safety far more than anyone else. Buying a new pump is not a possibility without re-inventing how it's going to be mounted. BTW, I am going to be carrying an extra impeller for this beast when I go out next. It would have been easy enough to change that out on the water rather than being towed in.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Buying a new pump is not a possibility without re-inventing how it's going to be mounted. BTW,

Ayuh,.... Which is the PROBLEM...

You can polish a turd all day, 'n it's still a turd....

After seein' yer boat,... No way in 'ell I'd go divin' with yer equipment....

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

After seein' yer boat,... No way in 'ell I'd go divin' with yer equipment....

Wow, an insult from a moderator! That's OK, I'm used to such unfriendliness on the internet. In the diving world there is a phenomenon: If I don't dive it, teach it or sell it, then it must be crap. I get it. It's in the boating world as well. It's sad, but I understand: I don't do things your way, so I must be an idiot. I hope I never get that narrow minded in diving, in boating or the internet. I wonder if you even looked at how the pump did in the video I posted. I would guess not.

One day I'll own a MIG welder again and then I'll be glad to fabricate a better method of tightening this pump down. Or perhaps I'll find a mounting bracket already made with a pump that will bolt right on. Until that time, I want to enjoy my boat. I have put a lot of time and effort into my "turd" and I like it. It's my first boat and has been a wonderful learning experience.

 

[chum1]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

There's two schools of thought here:

1) buy new spend extra money and hope that it will stay in running condition

or

2) fix used parts the best way you know how and know they will work from previous experience, possibly save a few dollars and hope that it will stay in running condition

Either way will work and will yield the same result albeit the latter one you will have to be reasonably confident in your skills. New parts break and old parts break its just a matter of chance and useage in a lot of cases. I would go boating in that boat any day.

 

[ZachDean]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

As small a part as this is, the heat used in welding it will relax the fatique (work hardening) of the pulley face.

Heat from welding is heat treating, work hardening is the result of cold working a metal. Just letting you know.

 

[NetDoc]

Re: Overheat on my 3.0l...

Heat from welding is heat treating, work hardening is the result of cold working a metal. Just letting you know.

That's the whole point. If you don't quench a piece after you weld it, the heat will relax all the inner stresses caused by work hardening. The center piece to just outside of the bolt holes was a cherry red when I finished. I'm pretty happy with the result and how it spins true while running.