Oregon joining US

Bassy

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Hey all you Oregonians( or anyone else),<br /> We're covering Oregon during US Manifest Destiny; 8th grade History. Are there anything interesting facts that might interest these young teens? Anything you can provide would be helpful. We have textbooks, but that's it. Personally I don't know much about Oregon's history, even with being neighbors. So, what can you tell me? We'll learn about this Monday, so I'll check in this weekend to see if there's anything I can add to Monday's lesson. Thanks<br /> :)
 

LubeDude

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Re: Oregon joining US

Please dont take this personnally! I really like the posts that you have made!<br /><br />Many years ago Oregon was a wonderfull place to live, Lots of game, lots of fish, lots of timber, and lots of jobs!<br /><br />Then little buy little we were infested with liberals that decided that we were doing things all wrong! Now look at us!!<br /><br />Tell your class that!!<br /><br />LubeDude :D :D
 

Bassy

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Re: Oregon joining US

Thank you, Lube Dude. I'll forward on the message. I'll try teach them what a Liberal is. ( Oh, 8th graders!) <br />Can you provide a specific example that has made a difference with you personally? Maybe one of these areas. Specific is helpful.
 

LubeDude

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Re: Oregon joining US

Im sorry if I came on a little strong, I have a habbit of doing that!!<br /><br />Its just that I live in a coastal comunity that has always relied on timber and fishing for most of its exhistence! First the Spotted Owl thing(OUTRIGHT LIE), Now its the Salmon and Bottom fishing! (UNSUBSTANTIATED SCIENCE)! It wouldnt be a bad thing if it would have been true!!<br /><br />When the spotted owl thing came up, there was a big write up in Look Magazine with many pictures taken from an airplane at about 8-10,000 feet! It showed parts of oregon that had been clearcut. (The only efficient way because of the terrain), The problem was that you couldnt see the little trees that had been re planted and were growing in the place of the logged timber! There is just so many lies assotiated with it all and who is to know any different than what they read?? Trees are americas renuable resource and no different than any other crop other than it takes longer to grow!! We log and fish in Oregon. thats what we do, leave us alone and let us do it! We have judges in California telling us what to do!! Whats wrong with that picture??<br /><br />Personnaly I cant say it effected me other than just living in the community other than salmon fishing, I have quite fighting it and quit!<br /><br />LubeDude
 

Boomyal

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Re: Oregon joining US

oooooooooo! jgregory, that's hittin hard, but oh so true.<br /><br />Bassy: RE: Manifest Destiny (oh those evil white men): I read an article, a while back, that dealt with the character of those who stopped in the Pacific Northwest, in their original quest to reach the land of milk and honey (california). Beyond the contention that there was a great difference in those who quit the trek and those who continued on to the original destination, I wont' try to quote the article or reconstruct its conclusion. The article did point out that the difference still exist, today, in the PNW character. I wished that I had saved it. It would be interesting for your study.<br /><br />The following is a bit far afield from your primary subject but as long as Lubedude brought it up and you responded.....<br /><br />As to the definition of a Liberal, it is one who believes:<br /><br />That Man, in the greater scheme of things, is less than what God created him to be. He is no different than an ant or a tree or a rock.<br /><br />That man is a defiler of the planet and has no right to use the resources put at his disposal by his Creator. After all, they weren't created anyway, they just happened.<br /><br />That all problems are the fault of someone else, therefore they should be solved and paid for by someone else, ie, esp govt. This ethic even pervades our Tort Laws.<br /><br />That there is no right and wrong. What ever he decides, in a vacuum, is ok.<br /><br />That it is 'unfair' for one to have more than the next except for those Liberals in power.<br /><br />That America has no right to act unilaterally in the world.<br /><br />That to achieve, an unachievable utopia, the individual has to be subdued, by whatever clever tactic or reasoning necessary, and subordinated to the State (them) <br /><br />There are probably many more that time and space do not permit but please expose your students to these two items from my neighboring post replies.<br /><br />1)<br />The Constitution clearly states the role of the Federal Govt. in our lives, ie;<br /><br />TO PROVIDE FOR THE COMMON DEFENSE AND TO<br />PROMOTE (do I need to quote Webster here)<br />THE GENERAL WELFARE.<br /><br />2)<br />This memorable quotation is from Sir Alex Fraser Tytler (1742-1813). Scottish jurist and historian, he was widely known in his time and was professor of Universal History at Edinburgh University in the late 18th century.<br /><br />The quotation is from the 1801 collection of his lectures:<br /><br />"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. From that time on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the results that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship.<br /><br />The average age of the world's great civilizations has been 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence:<br /><br />from bondage to spiritual faith; (1)<br /><br />from spiritual faith to great courage; (2)<br /><br />from courage to liberty; (3)<br /><br />from liberty to abundance; (4)<br /><br />from abundance to selfishness; (5)<br /><br />from selfishness to complacency; (6)<br /><br />from complacency to apathy; (7)<br /><br />from apathy to dependency; (8)<br /><br />***FROM DEPENDENCY BACK AGAIN TO BONDAGE." (9)****<br /><br />WHERE ARE WE TODAY ? ? ?
 

LubeDude

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Re: Oregon joining US

Boomyal:<br /><br />You Never quit amazing me with your words of wisdom! You are either: 150 years old, You read a lot and remember everything you read, or you are just intirely way more intelegent than the rest of us! I would never even concider trying to argue anything with you!<br /><br />Right On!!!!! :D :D <br /><br />LubeDude
 

Boomyal

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Re: Oregon joining US

All that you say, Lubedude, must be the reason I use Amsoil, Huh? :D <br />Thanks. You did pretty good yourself.<br /><br />It just frosts my behind, what is going on these days.<br /><br />There are just two kinds of Liberals. (no not what you think)<br /><br />a) The politically powerful, that assume the mantle, for the pure sake of diverting power unto themselves.<br /><br />b) the unthinking followers, who just soak up all the the seemingly kind, caring, theoretical utopian hoopla that is used by the above, to achieve their agenda. POWER, POWER, POWER.<br /><br />Except for the very few deluded believers in history, the quest for Socialism has always been about power. Americans are very conservative people and the Liberal cum Socialist knows this.<br />So he has to couch his ideas, using reasoning that disguises his true intent. <br /><br />I'm not that smart. I just happened to go to school at a time when real American developmental history, along with all of the background reasoning, was taught in the public schools. And fortunatley (or was it a curse) I stayed awake thru it all.<br /><br />YOU LISTENING HERE, GOOD TEACHER BASSY? ;)
 

LubeDude

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Re: Oregon joining US

Tylerin:<br /><br />Thanks for the web Page, but that is the saddest thing I have looked at in a long time. I mean looking at where we were years ago is enough to make me cry!!<br /><br />Thank you Liberals of Oregon, Portland, Eugene, and Salem!! You have done a really great job!<br /><br />LubeDude
 

Bassy

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Re: Oregon joining US

I'm listening and paying very close attention. :)
 

tylerin

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Re: Oregon joining US

Bassy, did you check out the website. Is that what your looking for?
 

Homerr

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Re: Oregon joining US

Well,<br /><br />I have so many complaints now about Oregon, I can't begin. It's only a matter of time before I get out of here.<br /><br />As before mentioned, Oregon was an awesome place for the outdoors and such, but now it's nothing more than a haven for the tree-huggers and Liberals who want to run our lives how THEY see fit. Tax this, ticket that. Police state.<br /><br />I'm not going to get worked up over this one, so I'll just say:<br /><br />TOO MANY THINGS TO LIST! :D <br /><br />H.
 

Bassy

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Re: Oregon joining US

Yes tylerin.<br /> These sections will help out alot: <br />A Question of Sovereignty &<br />Progressive Growth<br />Thank you sooo much!<br />The more information the better the lesson is. Planning! I care so much about what I teach and I want to be as accurate as I can. Textbooks just don't cut it. When will they( State of California) understand that? I want more than a textbook. More resources. Will they provide them? Oh no! I go and dig it up! Find it! :mad: My time! I should be fishing! But I thank you iboats for these people. You all are alot of help.<br />Bassy :) :) :)
 

Bassy

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Re: Oregon joining US

Boomyal,<br />Thank you too!! I need a definition of a"Liberal".<br /> I have one now. It's too bad I have this class for only one more week.( Yep, Trimester). I'm gone next Friday. Not my choice. Lay-off again.<br />Thanks!! :) :) <br />Bassy
 

Boomyal

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Re: Oregon joining US

My pleasure Bassy. Wish there weren't any out there to describe. Hoped I'd make them all see the light. But the bottom line is that everything in nature has to be in equilibrium. ;) <br /><br />Hope you get to either put on skiis or don a snorkel for your forced sabbatical.
 

tylerin

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Re: Oregon joining US

Bassy sorry to hear about your lay-off,but if I were you I'd use it as an excuse to go skiing there in Squaw, or even better yet Kirkwood
 

Bassy

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Re: Oregon joining US

tylerin,<br />This is the original "Squaw Valley". No skiing here. I have plenty of things to do. I actually am looking forward to the break. Crazy? Huh? Yeah. My family thinks so too. Bassy not working? It's another world. another conversation. More hurt. So, I'm gonna to go out strong. That's how I go: Strong!!<br /> :mad:
 

plywoody

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Aug 11, 2002
Messages
685
Re: Oregon joining US

Hmmm...Bad science, Huh? Exactly what are your qualifications to determine what is, or is not, bad science? I am curious.<br /><br />You are correct about one thing. The spotted owl thing, while somewhat real, was simply an excuse and not a reason for the downturn in logging. If it had not been spotted owls, it would have been flying squirrels. The reality is that it is relatively simple science to calculate the change in Forest Resource inventory, what level it is at, what is the optimal level, and whether the inventory is growing or shrinking.<br /><br />Europeans have been calculating this sort of thing for a century.<br /><br />The reality is that it has been known for a long time that the F.R.I. was declining pretty much since the advent of mill automation and improved harvest techniques, and it takes those seedlings you point to 70+ years to reach a stage of maturity, and to remain a sustainable resource, you simply cannot harvest at a rate that exceeds the new growth rate.<br /><br />Public Forest Management policy requires that forests be managed for multiple uses and biodiversity, rather than solely timber production. The Multnomah watershed supplies all of Portland its water, for example, and that is taken under consideration.<br /><br />For years, industry was allowed to take what it needed from the forests--due to economic and political pressures. In fact, US forest service, BLM, and state resources contacted industry before announcing the sale schedule, to make sure adequate supplies were made available. Finally, scientific personnel long knew it was an unsustainable practice, but the courts finally forced the managers to address what the scientists already knew.<br /><br />And the problem was that resources were being depleted to the point where the forest was clearly out of balance between mature inventory and new growth, and in order to fix it, you had to go beyond the balanced harvest, and actually set harvest levels that were below the growth rate, in order to return the forests to health. This does indeed cause disruption in supply, and a significant amount of problems in the timber industry.<br /><br />Take the conservative approach, and whack it down till there is nothing left to whack down, and see where that gets you. Bad policy takes decades and decades to repair, and meanwhile the entire environment suffers, including the water you drink.<br /><br />Give me verifiable scientific evidence that increased harvest will maintain proper age class inventory in the forest, and I will agree with you. Evidence that there is seedling growth (of course there is) and change will cost jobs (of course it will) is simply not very compelling and does not solve the problem--it only postpones it, and increases the problem for someone else to solve at a later date.<br /><br />BTW, many markets will not accept wood products from areas not certified as a "sustainable" forest--the proverbial "green" stamp. Oregon's forest are not yet certified as sustainable, and have quite a ways to go to get there.
 
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